Hey guys. I decided to purchase an entry-level turntable (Music Hall MMF-1.5) after all these years without one .. I can resist no longer. It's due to arrive tomorrow and I'm pretty excited. For now I intend on using the built-in phono preamp and connect to the free input on the SE84UFO. The Music Hall manual states the ground wire needs to attach to the amp/receiver/ect. and I'm kind of clueless here. Without a ground connection on the Zen how do I accomplish this? I'm sure this is a basic question for most of you but I really am clueless and don't want to mess anything up. Some guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Thanks for mentioning this. I'm not sure to be honest. I fully expect to purchase a separate phono preamp but was hoping the built-in would be ok for the time being. Of course adding a phono preamp would solve the ground question as well. Funny though, I thought tables with built-in preamps didn't need to be grounded but the manual suggests otherwise, unless I'm reading it wrong.

The spec's on the MMF1.5 show a Line level output between 90-216mv.    Going into a anSE84 directly your gonna be behind the 8-ball so to speak.   Now depending upon how sensitive your speakers are you maybe able to enjoy some good sound at a decent volume but most likely not be able to make it play loud. It would be a best case if your speakers are in the +95db/sens.   As far as grounding,  try without.  If there is no hum or no offensive/obtrusive hum then your fine without the grounding.  The option is primarily there help mitigate hum when the table/arm pickup magnetic fields from other sources like the TT motor, etc...   May not be an issue,...   If it is,  you should be able to run the ground wire form the TT to any other grounded area,  doesn't even necessarily need to be the amp.  You could terminate the end of a ground wire and stick it directly into the ground plug/slot of an outlet or any other area that is grounded.   I would however keep the ground away from terminating on the ground sleeve of an RCA.

Excellent,  yes,for quieter listening you may be ok.   I thought that was kinda weird about needing a ground with a phono pre out,  but hey, I've def. run across stranger things in this hobby,  :o   Glad you got a quick response!  Best,

I’m afraid you won’t realize the Zen’s potential until you connect it to a real phono preamp that puts out at least 2 volts.

Many better than I could chime in here.

My friend has a lounge audio which he runs directly into the zen with excellent results. That might be a winner if you can find it used. As Rivierarach said - there is no replacement for absent volts

I too looked up the specs for this TT and if I read them right you might get 1/4 Volt out of it.  The cart has a very low output for a MM and the phono stage can't have much gain.  Even with a 5mV cart and a ZP3, you only get about 1/2 volt.  I use a CSP3 and a ZR2 after my phono stage to bring the voltage up.  There may be no way around the math.  Even an average separate phono stage with that cart won't get you there.  I forget the actual number but with a 5mV cart, I think you need a phono stage with mid to upper 50s db gain.  Steve's amps generally take 2 volts to reach full power whereas I think 1 volt is more typical.  That may be why this question keeps coming up.

A line stage with adjustable gain like the ZSTAGE for example will improve the sound, or at least it does in my system. You get more body, girth, dynamics, and volume. I especially like to use a lot of voltage going into these amps at lower listening levels. You get all the detail without any fatigue what so ever.

figured it may surprise you for the better (:
and it will get better as the cartridge breaks-in! i
an excellent phono pre is definitely a step in the right direction for the future.

If you want to add just one component I recommend a ZROCK2.  You'll get additional gain and an unbelievable bloom to the lows and mids.

The ZROCK2 is a secret weapon unleashed on the audio world. It adds gain such as a ZSTAGE. And it adds it with adjustable EQ, two different curves.

I had no idea how it would transform my systems, wouldn't even have known how to hope for what it does as it is sort of an unexplored audio world until it was unleashed on the world by Steve. Read the ZROCK2 forum Jim for all the user impressions. It does allow more bass for classic rock, but I don't listen to much of that so it's great that it does so much more for so many different musical (or video sound) styles. It adds gain, it adds weight, it adds body, it enhances subtle details. It's a game changer, in either the basic mode or the incredible 25th Anniversary modded hot rod version. I wouldn't be without one now, it improves everything. It's not at all dissimilar to the ZSTAGE or CSP preamps, those do similar things but without the EQ adjustment. I've always needed that EQ adjustment potential and tried to get it many different ways--the ZROCK2 is the elegant and efficient way to achieve that.

The ZROCK is another nice option. Thanks for mentioning.

So far so good with this new little adventure of mine. The sound has improved quite a bit since my first listen (burn-in?). Along with some new vinyl I hope to find some used gems so I purchased a Spin Clean and some MoFi anti-static sleeves. The Spin Clean worked very nicely on the 1st few used LP's I picked up .. big difference. I've also discovered the wonders the Magic Eraser to clean the stylus. Right now, Cat Stevens decided to drop by and play some music. Lucky me.

OK .. more input needed from you guys if you don't mind.

As an experiment I decided to add my preamp (PS Audio Trio P200) into the mix to see if I'd hear an improvement with the turntable. Well, I'm happy to say it makes a big difference .. volume, weight, scale, dynamics .. everything, just like some have mentioned. As a bonus, I now have a remote for volume.

The other side of the equation is digital doesn't sound quite a good through the preamp as DAC to amp direct. Seems to me I can have both but I thought I'd check before proceeding. So, DAC direct into 1 input on the amp and preamp to the other. Toggle to switch sources. Yes? Or am I mistaken and not seeing an obvious problem? I've been in this hobby for quite some time but never faced this dilemma before. Thank you gentlemen.

Thank you @persuitofnow. This makes me very happy! I suppose I could have lived with the DAC connected to the preamp (it doesn't sound bad) but I'm glad I don't have to. There's just something special about that direct connection .. kind of haunting really. It's already been reconfigured. Best of both worlds.