Is there ever a point where it sounds too real...

yes.

When it sounds too real, it sets off a fight or flight response because you know it's not real, and your eyes can't see anything in your room other than speakers so what happens is a gross conflict of senses.  Your ears are telling you it's real, you eyes are telling you it's not real.  Since this is a physical conflict between light and sound, the only way to deal with it is to surrender to it and leave your body while you listen.

I bring this up tonight because I am listening to a TORII MKIV before I ship it out on Tuesday and this one has the full Anniversary mods done to it!  I am astounded at how tight the bass is and the percussion this amp has.  Rim shots or anything done on wood blocks, for example, sound completely real to the point of insanity.

Not the the MKIV has ever been shy on power, but the 25th Anniversary Upgrades make the amplifier sound as though the power has easily doubled.

The only information on 25th Anniversary mods are scattered throughout this forum (use search function at the top of the page to find it) but for those with TORII MKIV or any version of the TORII, the mods are as follows:  Beeswax bypass mod $700 and Glass Resistor Mod $280.

The glass resistors are special 1% precision metal film resistors that are encased in a glass tube sealed at the ends with metal and an inert atmosphere.  There are no "audiophile" resistors being sold that are this good.

Anyway, if you own a TORII and are not familiar with the Anniversary Mods or on the fence about doing it, I'll give you an idea just how big a difference it actually makes;  Had I heard a TORII MK4 with these mods, the more powerful ZMA amplifier would have never happened, guaranteed.

I just switched to the heavy duty tests to really flex the amp and juice up the caps... dubstep.... the insane bass and the way this amplifier is handling it just has me shaking my head over and over and over.  

You know, I'm just going to admit it - I (of all people) had no idea how good these amps actually are.  For 23 years I've throttled them back to make them somewhat forgiving and affordable.  Now I hear what I could have been listening to all this time ; ).

The experience called "listening" no longer captures it.  It's way more than listening, the satisfaction from hearing this sound it is more like a drug, or like eating chocolate or your favorite food.  It is very physical.  Especially when using the DNA2 loudspeakers, and did I mention OMG how tight the bass is and how low it drops???  Holy crap it's good stuff.

Happy listening



Steve

Over the past year I've often wished I had jumped back into audio sooner after my long absence from serious listening and tinkering. I would have learned more along the way etc & etc, but right now I am so glad I took the plunge when I did.
With my brand new upgraded ZTPRE (thanks again Steve), my new modded ZROCK2, my ToriiMKIV all upgraded and modded, my DNA2's breaking in nicely I think I may have really lucked out with timing. I've gotten to jump back in over the last 9 months and reap all the benefits of Steve's several decades of building better and better gear.
 I've often wrestled with "should I have started right off with a ZMA, did I miss the boat on that one?" well, over the past week, since getting my amp back and ZTPRE into the system, I don't feel the need. Sure when the first watt doesn't suck, how could another 15 not be fabulous?? I'm sure it would, but even in my really very large, volumous room (rooms) I really feel satisfied that my  TORII's 25 watts is plenty for the job at hand. Even with the significant room treatments, which seem to suck sound right out of the air, I can play the system sufficiently loud enough, cleanly, to blow myself away. That's a lot said for the modded, upgraded MKIV and all the gain added items in the chain. I'm loving it! I'd highly recommend all upgrades and anniversary mods, a home run there, many times over.
HAPPY LISTENING is an understatement.
Best,
Scott

Not trying to influence you in any way...
Those upgrades will make it seem like you also got a speaker upgrade for free  

Best,
Scott

OMG!

PACIFIC AM, from the Album TOY, by Yello (Borris Blank).  A 24bit, 48khz recording streamed from Qobuz being played on the TORII MK4 with Anniversary mods...  I decided to turn the volume WAY up and see what happens...  This is usually a great way to wreck a good thing. Not tonight! Another seriously HOLY CRAP moment!  

I wish I could find a way to describe the leading edges of the notes, especially the power notes, on this amplifier. Solid state is so slow compared to this!. Yes, I know that statement will get a lot of engineer's panties in a bunch, but I could really care less because I can prove it. The CRUNCH factor is on a scale of 1 to 10 at least a 17. It's just got so much SMACK and ATTACK and SIZE while it remains juicy warm the whole time. No shit, I think this might be better than sex folks...

Having way to much fun myself, now...

Steve

Steve will need to answer, or Sarah, as the price list presented on the forum only shows the poly bypass mod for the Torii Mk III:

If the TORII MK3 is already upgraded with Beeswax caps, then it is treated like a TORII MK4 with respect to the mods.

Steve

I packed up my Torii today and it’s off to the Mother Ship for the anniversary upgrades! The ZP3 will be right behind it! Can’t wait!

I agree with Scott. The wait is hard but the results are stellar!

I think I have one or two, I took some closeups when Steve was trying to help me with a problem. I’ll do a look in the morning and post if I find them.
Scott

wow! Just look at all those jupiter caps!

No problem, enjoy...
It’s one of those keeps on giving gifts from Steve, that is so much of what DecWare is. A new journey.
Best,
Scott

I received my ZP3-25 back last night and hooked it up to the MKIV-25! Absolutely wonderful sound on my KG-4's. The holographic airy and dynamic sound has returned! Thanks Decware for the affordable hi-fidelity experience!!

Hi Alex,

The TORII Mono's do come with the latest mods, yes. And the the listed price is for each amp/channel. That said, those amplifiers would not have as good a low level performance as all of our other amps including yours.  They like to be turned up a bit to get in the zone, and with an efficient speaker that means you're going to be listening pretty loud.  The ZMA is a better choice if low level performance is important to you, otherwise the sound of both is great.  If you want a bit more bloom in the bass and the ability to adjust the treble to anywhere you like, then the TORII MK4 is the amp.  As great as all of these are, if you don't need more power, the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode is still king.

Steve

Alex, I use the ZROCK2 in two systems, one with a CSP2+ and Taboo Mk IV, both outfitted with the 25th Anniversary mods, the other with a ZTPRE, CSP3 with the 25th Anniversary mods, and pair of SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with the 25th Anniversary Mods. The Monoblocks have the treble cut control but I have not used it since the ZROCK2 settled into the system. I had a Torii Mk III with bass and treble controls before these, and I can honestly say that I enjoy the Monoblocks and ZROCK2 so much more. If you can arrange the right speaker/amp match either one of these types of designs, one with the bass and treble control, one without, will offer you adjustable involving sound. The amp and speaker matching is important in selecting one or the other.

Adding the ZROCK2 to an amplfier that also has tonal controls is beneficial as well. Even more fine adjustment over tonal possibiities and also another gain-stage to hitch a ride on. You know how killer a ZROCK2 is in a system. If your speakers are very happy with your UFO, then I think you'll be gob-smacked at how much more the Anniversary amp will bring to the table.

You are correct Alex, the Monoblocks are not stereo amps but one amp for each stereo channel. So only one set of binding posts for a speaker on each amp, and though there are two inputs on the amps they are still just going to take one RCA interconnect cable each, so you'll have a left amp and a right amp.

The ZROCK2 (yes, I use one with the Monoblocks) has an output for each channel of the stereo pair, so one RCA interconnect will go to the left Monoblock, and one to right Monoblock--no bridging necessary, one ZROCK2 is designed to run a stereo amp or two Monoblock amps.

I think Steve might say that if you don't need the extra bit of power the Monoblocks give the stereo amp may be the better sounding by a thin hair line sonically. Or not--the seclusion of each channel and the bit of extra power do make a difference I'm sure. One amp versus two does save a bit on power cables, tubes, isolation stuff, etc.

Anyway I would have no fear that your ZROCK2 will sit idle no matter your choice.

Folks I have a few questions about the SE84UFO25: On the order page I saw the following:
1.      Volume control Stepped attenuators - $150 or Smooth action volume controls (Free) or No volume control option. What is the purpose of the attenuators? How might this affect the music please.
2.      Signal Caps: VCAPs - $150 or Copper Foil Beeswax caps. (free). How does this affect the music?
I was under the impression that if one orders the 25th anniversary amp, I would have the best of the mods.

Thanks everyone.

Awesome. Thank you very much Lon. You are giving me some well valued advice and things to think about.
I really appreciate you input.