i think that the ohm dropping is in reference to the way the amp and the speakers interact. I don't believe you'll encounter audible sonic degradation with your speakers.

And no, I think that what is meant is that if you wish to use two sources into two inputs on the amp, a Y-connector must be used with each input. If you are just using one input, your mixer, you just need to use a Y-connector with that.

Right, the Y-Connector will take one channel of the mixer output and split it so that you can feed one to each of the mono blocked amps.

I don't have personal experience using high qua lity Y-connectors. . . I've only ever used them in the past in very low fidelity systems. www.audioadvisor.com offers a Pangea and an Audioquest version either of which should be okay. Perhaps others with experience using Y-connectors / Y-cabling with Decware equipment may chime in. . . .

Speaker connection

The RCA cables you have right now should have a male connector on each side. Most of the better cables are not connected together. So when you buy a pair you have a cable for the right and a separate cable for the left. even if you are using the cheaper RCA cable that are glued together you can rip them apart to have two cables. Now the RCA Y cable you are going to get should have a female connector on the one side and then two male connectors on the other. Your RCA male connector should plug into the female Y connection and then the two male connections from the Y will plug into your mono block amp.

You guys are fantastic!!!

Thank you so much for your time and helping me through this process.

For longer runs of interconnect, XLR would typically be better because of the noise rejection.

For your application, I think you're going to need an XLR-->RCA converter before going into the Y cable.  I don't have any experience with these, but I'm sure someone here could recommend a good one.  

There are folks on this forum that like Alpha Goertz cables, and it looks like they offer Y cables as well (scroll down to the bottom of the page after clicking on the link below).  This could be another high quality Y cable option.  

https://www.thecableco.com/alpha_core_goertz.html

Once you bridge two UFO's, you are no longer running them as a SET amp...is that correct.  Would it be some sort of push pull configuration then?

Agreed - Push-Pull takes the sine wave and splits it - the push (positive) goes to one power tube and the pull (negative) goes to the other tube.

When you're bridging I believe you're going series or parallel depending on amp topology and how you connect it.

IMO - when you're bridging, there are more parts/variables in the mix. It's not the exact same sound (purity?) as the un-bridged amp. There is a point when you have to just use a bigger amp.

Next Best Thing.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84UFO3.html

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for all the feedback on this post. I've learned a ton from it.

As I mentioned previously, I'm using the SE84UFO to amplify two Type AA Klipsch La Scala's. However, I am interested in the Decware Monoblocks (SE84UFO3) as well.

In the long run I planned on powering each La Scala with a SE84UFO at 6 watts. However, I know these are very efficient speakers.

I would like some personal opinions. Is 2.7 watts plenty of power for each La Scala? Or should I stick with my Bridged plan and go with 6 watts per La Scala? I totally believe in using the amp for its intended purpose. That being said I would rather have strict Monoblocks for each setup. But is that 6 watts a game changer for the La Scalas?

Thanks!

I think it may depend on your current setup and impressions. Are you completely happy with the sound you have now? Do you feel you LACK power?

If you don't feel lacking in the power department then I would suggest considering bridged SE84UFOs. You'll get mostly the same sonic qualities and more headroom. If you feel that your speakers don't really need more power, then the SE84UFO3 may well be the better choice. In my experience when you don't really NEED more power more power itself isn't always a step up. The mono blocks should offer you a bit more power (and your speakers should react to a bit more power from this amp topology almost as well as three times the power--just my guess from what I've read of them) AND the mono blocks should offer you a bit more resolution/transparency. So it could be the biggest "win."

In either case if you're happy now, and seems you are, I would recommend waiting to see what the 25th anniversary models ahead would bring to the lineup. . . either choice with the new circuitry design may give you big rewards compared to the present lineup. And who knows, there may be more than two amps in the lineup that will receive 25th Anniversary redesigns. . . what if there were a bridged Zen in one chassis (like the Torii/ZMA chassis) choice, or if the Taboo were offered with this new tech? Those two could also be good contenders for your situation. . . .

Yes, I don't doubt that the price will have a big hike, but at least the current SE84UFO3 mono blocks come with the Jupiter caps already, one portion of a price hike possibly avoided. . . .

I think what you and Eric are saying WAS true. But the UFO transformers have changed that for the Zen. Look what Steve writes on the SE84UFO page:




Worried about 2 huger than life SET watts not being enough power?

The SE84UFO employs a unique floating output transformer scheme where the negative speaker wire is not tied to chassis ground. That means when the amp is bridged, both channels may either be series or parallel wired. In series, both channels work as one and transparency is preserved.

So with no sonic drawbacks to running the amps in mono, you can expect 6 dB of additional power rather then the expected 3dB. This is thanks to the power increase the amp has when it sees half the speaker load from being series bridged.

Thanks Jeff. I think I understand what you are saying about a "voicing tool" and why that means he doesn't want to offer it as a factory model . . .but maybe not.

Jeff of Arabica wrote on 01/21/18 at 00:44:17:


But isn't he currently listening/voicing/testing 25th Anniversary Mono's right now?  He must have sensed some advantage or had a curiosity about them or they wouldn't be playing in his rack as we speak.

Lon wrote on 01/21/18 at 00:05:06:


But coming from the perspective of the OP ... he already has 1 amp, so if he purchases another one ~ (IMO) it should have been at the exact same time and definitely should have the exact same parts, not to mention burn in already occurring with his current amp.   I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I'll stand by Eric's statement even with UFO's I think there is a lot of parts involved that may or may not take away some purity in comparison to real mono's.

beowulf wrote on 01/21/18 at 01:22:45:

Well, we'll disagree. I personally don't believe so and take Steve's word as is. There are circuit differences between the Monoblocks and the SE84UFO but that's not to say that a bridged SE84UFO will loose sonic quality compared to a single one, Steve says they won't.

What Steve told me about the mono blocks he's listening to right now with 25th Anniversary tech is "You'll want a pair." (Which I don't disagree with!) So he'll be offering them one way or another. . . .

Quote:


I think there is some ambiguity in terminology being used when discussing the one-and-only, "25th Anniversary Zen Amplifier" and upgrading existing models (including the SE84UFO3 monoblocks) with some of the technology in the anniversary update.  Having followed this thread very closely, and sending Steve a direct email about offering the "25th Anniversary Zen Amplifier" with the option to have it wired in mono, I am fairly certain, this "built from the ground up" Anniversary amp will not be offered in a monoblock version.  At least there is no indication he is considering it.

There has been lots of talk about upgrading some of the existing amps in the line up with some of the new technology/methodologies recently discovered through the R&D process of the 25th Anniversary Zen.  But the SE84UFO3 monoblocks are likely NOT going to be the 25th Anniversary Zen amp, simply in monoblock form.  If he was to do this, it would increase the cost of the SE84UFO3 monoblocks to $7500! (based on the early projection price tag on the 25th Ann Zen of $3500 each).  I don't see this happening.

So while the techniques of bypassing that Steve has shared will be implemented to some degree in these upgraded amps, he has mentioned in this thread that the number of capacitors (and likely other differences) will not be exactly the same as the new 25th Anniversary amp due to cost/circuit layout.  

My guess is  the price of the upgraded monoblocks will jump from $1195 each to probably somewhere around $2000+ each (pure guess here), but I can't see it going much higher if this new technology is implemented as standard design.  From what I have read from Steve's posts, he is looking to incorporate these advancements as standard design features in select amps, the SE84UFO3 monoblocks being one of them.

If I have to make a choice between the actual 25th Anniversary Zen Amp priced at $7500 for a pair (to be bridged) or a set of SE84UFO3 monoblocks with the "new anniversary advancements" priced somewhere around $4000+ for the pair,  I will choose the 25th Anniversary Zen's and I will then bridge them in series.

My point is this.  Steve's plan to incorporate these advancements in existing amp designs is NOT the same as the 25th Anniversary Amp that he is working to release this year at around $3500 each.  If these incorporated updates to existing amps were part-for-part exactly the same, their respective cost would have to significantly increase to the point of pricing out too many customers looking for more entry level amplifiers.  Each of these upgraded amps will benefit from these recent developments, but I can't see them being on same level as the 25th Anniversary simply due to cost of parts.  There is a reason Steve is likely going to charge $3500 for this amp.  It is unreasonable to think that other amps proposed to receive some of the anniversary updates (original Zen Amp, SE84UFO3 monoblocks, etc) are going to be on par with the 25th Anniversary.  Could they sound as good?  Possibly.  Possibly not.  All I know is they will be very different amps.  They have to be.  Otherwise the design and relative price disparity would not be there.  

P.S.:  I certainly don't want to speak on Steve's behalf.  These comments are purely my observations/opinion/interpretations based on the contents of this thread and my request for Steve to make a monoblock version of the 25th Anniversary Zen amp (which the answer was "no").   And I could be completely off my rocker here - which is certainly a real possibility.  

Who knows. (other than Steve of course   )  Lots of speculation.  

Bottom line, I would LOVE to have a set of 25th Anniversary monoblocks!!  So, if this SE84UFO3 monoblocks with the  anniversary update puts them on par (or perhaps better in some way), then I am in!

There is at least two design differences between the SE84UFO3 with "anniversary updates" and the 25th Anniversary Zen. One is the use of a single OA3 as opposed to a dual OA3 (25th Anniversary) configuration.  But based on Steve's post of that difference, there was no advantage/disadvantage identified.  The second one is of course the monoblock configuration as opposed to stereo.  Technically, it is different.  But, if it sounds as good, different really doesn't matter.  

With 11 additional capacitors thrown at the SE84UFO3 anniversary upgrade, I am curious what the price point will be for the set - and how that will compare to the price of a pair of 25th Anniversary Zen stereo amps.  

At the end of the day, I can only speculate and everything is still early, premature, and subject to change.  However, it's sure a lot of fun drooling over it all, isn't it?  

While I enjoy reading about Steve's newest developments, including upgraded SE84UFO mono amps, I encourage everyone to take a breather on speculation.  Let's let the Decware Design Chief (DDC) do his thing and share his observations.

I know regular posters want as much information as possible, especially related to the new 25th Anniversary amp and possible mono amp upgrades, just remember Steve is running a business.  We all know he sweats the details and employs extensive personal "listening time" + has quite a build list he and his team attend to on a daily basis.

Just a thought to keep things moving forward in a positive light, no personal criticisms intended.

HK

Quote:
.  

That would be a nice option! If it can reduce the price AND save me the price of power cable.... count me in!  I just bought (2) Analysis Plus Ultimate Oval power cords.  Yikes!

I feel I’m sitting perfectly with my Omega Super Alnico HO’s at 97dB.  A single Super Zen can make them sing.  I have one, and have mated the two.  However, I really want to have a little extra power and headroom at my disposal.  So for me, it will be a pair of 25th Anniversaries or a set of the upgraded/redesigned monoblocks.  

And I hear you Lon.  I love my push-pulls, but there is just something about the sweet SET sound.  

You guys are just too much.  Enjoy the speculative bantering.

HK

duran599,
I am amazed that La Scalas (one of the world's most efficient speakers) are not loud enough with a single EL84 tube. Did I misunderstand? Have you not yet played these speakers with a single unbridged stereo Zen amp?

If you have used this amp and found it lacking, I would ask if you are using a Decware preamp. Or any preamp. Perhaps the lack of a driven sound, instead of a lack of absolute loudness, is what you are missing.  

Brian

jorgen wrote on 01/22/18 at 13:23:28:


I think our speculations are very close in line.  I'm not sure if there will be a real pair of 25th Anniversary mono's or just a 25th Ann upgrade to the current mono's in his lineup and not sure about any chassis changes.  

I'm also not sure if there will be a step up in fidelity from a single 25th Annivesary Zen amp vs mono blocks ~ just more power and headroom @ 2.7 watts.  That said the mono's "may" have an edge with it's own dedicated circuit, power supply and chassis over a bridged pair, but with the UFO transformers I may be splitting hairs.

If there's no difference in sound between a bridged pair of 25th Ann amps over a dedicated pair of mono's then there would be no real reason I could see to offer mono blocks at all other than being dedicated mono's which a person would probably use with a preamp and costs could be reduced by not having line level inputs?  However if there are going to be dedicated 25th Anniversary Mono Blocks this would be my choice over a bridged pair.

We'll have to wait until the Zen Master clarifies things a little more, but I'm with Lon and Jeff ~ it's been fun to speculate.

OK, my guess is that Steve will have the 25th Anniversary Zen and a option for the monos to get the 25th Anniversary treatment...either special order or maybe even an option on the order page.  I know when I ordered my ZP3 the beeswax caps weren't on the option page but I had been corresponding with someone who had had them put in his ZP3 and said it was worthwhile.

I think the Monos with the UFOs are already not a big seller and to make them all with the 25th Anniversary update would price them out as a choice for most buyers...so I think the monos will not come standard with the Anniversary treatment. Mark

Sorry to bring this old thread out from its dusty chamber.
Just to confirm, because I couldn't really find a schematic that shows the complete hooking up/cabling of two amps bridged into mono: is this as shown in the little sketch correct?

And one more thing I don't understand: I hear about bridging the amps either in series or in parallel. Which way is this and how does the other one work?