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Steve's 2017 Article/Paper on Sound Quality (Read 1138 times)
stone_of_tone
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Steve's 2017 Article/Paper on Sound Quality
02/28/17 at 15:04:31
 
Besides the "Sound Drops" fascinating Thread; I just read Steve's new article/paper: "What is Sound."

https://www.decware.com/newsite/articles.html

432 to 440.........why am I not surprised?

From the dogma of western medicine, to what is imprisoned in the Vatican Archives, the advent of the Dead Sea Scrolls, to government suppression....... .

However, does the new generation, that are gifted/smart, have enough time to figure it out? Our dying planet, is their first concern.............the clock is ticking.

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #1 - 02/28/17 at 22:04:33
 

Steve bowled me over with a lot of whats written there in that article on my last long visit to Decware...I think that was when I listened to the Omegas.

His giant chimes based on these frequencies are beautiful.
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Archie
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #2 - 02/28/17 at 22:57:26
 
I'm sorry, I just don't buy the "shadow government" conspiracy angle.

If Steve grew up listening to a 300 year old organ then his hearing patterns were "tuned" to those frequencies.  Since the "A" was changed from 432 Hz to 440 Hz in 1930, the organ would have been tuned to 432 Hz and so also, his hearing.  People with "Perfect Pitch" presumably are tuned to the 440 Hz scale since that is the standard.  Change the standard and you change "Perfect Pitch."

Also, as far as the numerology, maybe it's all true but mathematics is a man-made system and I'll bet there is some "circular logic" and coincidence going on with the numbers.

I also wonder how this all fits with say, Asian scales that can sound like noise to some of us occidentals.  Nevertheless, that is music and just as (or possible more due to age) valid than the western A = 432 Hz or 440 Hz.

I did hear once, a violinist with a Stradivarius, complain that as music has been "pitched up," it puts more stress on his instrument.  But I'm guessing that taste, not conspiracy, has driven the change in pitch standards.

With all due respect to Steve, the world is screwed up because each individual that makes it up is screwed up.  Time for us all to take responsibility and not keep blaming all powerful conspiratorial organizations -- even for bad sound!   Cheesy
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flargosa
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #3 - 03/01/17 at 04:34:32
 
That was a fascinating article.  Got me wondering if it had any relationship to brain control via different frequencies(Alpha, Beta, Delta wave, etc..).  They even have iPhone apps for it.  In String Theory physical properties of a particle are due to its vibrational frequency.  A change in vibration changes its property.  Maybe there is something to what Steve wrote.

With the Shadow Government conspiracy.  It’s possible it’s true, humans are selfish by nature and want control. The group with the most money has  control.  You know how that goes everybody loves money and many can be bought by it.  That may be how the shadow government controls its puppets.  I'm sure somewhere out there exist a group of ultra rich people who want more power.
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donovan
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #4 - 03/01/17 at 05:40:19
 
I'm a firm believer in 432 being the right foundational pitch. Sitting next to my SE84UFO is a Pioneer DJ CD player which I can manually set pitch control. I set it to -1.87 and, boom, I'm enjoying beautiful 432 corrected sounds through my Decware. I also have a computer program to correct to 432 for my downloaded music.
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Syd
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #5 - 03/01/17 at 11:16:04
 
Earthbound mathematics for the use in the rest of the universe will be slightly out. Because maths was devised by humans it will contain ambiguities and paradox.......just like us. Pi comes to mind. That ratio thing that cant be solved. It cant be solved because perfect circles dont exsist in the real world. We apply maths to `perfect`scenarios. There are no perfect straight lines, circles, squares. " Johnny has one apple and Mary has two", kids stuff but from tiny acorns we muddle through always knowing something isn`t quite real from our own perspective. "Johnnys` apple might be bigger Sir" "Be quiet !"
Inquiring minds slow the juggernaut and staus quo.
So, if, when, maybe, we do communicate with other life in the universe, what will their maths be. How do they calculate and drill into the questions we struggle with ?
The natural patterns of sound is a good contender.
Not just good but after reading Steves paper, most beneficial.

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Nick OSiris
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #6 - 03/01/17 at 14:52:58
 
@ donovan: Would you be able to name the software you use to alter pitch on music files please?

@ Syd: Chances are that if we do find other forms of life out there somewhere then maths will be the only thing we do have in common!

@Archie: Your first sentence - ok, that's an opinion you're entitled to. On balance I'd even probably lean towards that point of view myself rather than the opposite. So far so good.

Unfortunately the rest of your comments I have some issues with. A lot of what Steve has written in his article is scientific fact. You can't refute these by using phrases like 'presumably', 'I'll bet', and 'I'm guessing'.

Example: "People with 'Perfect Pitch' presumably are tuned to the 440 Hz scale". In fact perfect pitch is a feat of memory, and the listener, however gifted with this rare skill, still needs a memory of the note to refer to in order to achieve the trick. So, since the change to 440 Hz people with this ability have 'learnt' that 440 Hz is an A instead of the 432 Hz one.

Mathematics is a far more absolute method of communication than, say, the words we use here in the forum. It too can be regarded as scientific fact - testable, repeatable, and unambiguous. If maths says something is true then we should believe it.

Asian music only sounds odd to 'Western' ears because we have been awash our whole lives in music that adheres to certain rules, and we're conditioned to understand music in terms of those rules. In physical terms the sound of non-Western music vibrates us in the same way as any other sound.

I know we're now famously in the post-truth era where science can be refuted by shouting loudly and 'so-called experts' whose pronouncements we don't like are no doubt driven by their shadowy political agendas, but here in this little quiet backwater of the internet I believe a rather more sober, thoughtful approach ought to prevail.

Ok I'm kind of with you on that last sentence too, but that doesn't take away from Steve's beautiful summary of sound and its true place in our lives.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #7 - 03/01/17 at 15:50:34
 
Lonely Raven, your #70 reply in the Sound Drops Thread was not lost on me. Some say, he had accomplished or was coming close to a great electrical discovery....... . However, Westinghouse, and the JP Morgan's and Rockefeller's and the like, would not allow this........... .

Fiction? Maybe, ..........but maybe not?

So of course, they labeled him as a crackpot. ....while Edison was electrocuting Elephants and trying to get his way with making DC the standard for us....now that was nuts. Edison was so jealous of Nikola...and his Buffalo NY Power Plant too.




Today? Lets see.... . Oh, the Koch brother's and T Boone Picken's would like to see Elon Musk have an "accident".  Elon, developing and making a MUCH LARGER break through in the next decade and a half with:

"Tesla officially brought a new energy storage facility online at a plant 40 miles east of Los Angeles. With 396 refrigerator-sized stacks of lithium-ion batteries, the plant uses energy collected from the sun and the electric grid to power 15,000 homes for about four hours in the evening.

The project could be a glimpse into the future of the energy sector. As renewable sources become as cost effective as fossil fuels, power plants like Tesla's can provide a means for harvesting and distributing that energy as needed. And while Tesla is leading the charge with its lithium-ion product, some smaller startups are creating new, innovative types of batteries.

The Tesla project came to be after a natural gas plant in Southern California suffered a methane leak in 2015, according to the New York Times. The California Public Utilities Commission moved quickly to award several contracts for supplemental energy storage, including the one for Tesla's battery operation".

Cynical? Don't be naive about what the Fossil fuel Titan's will do..... .
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #8 - 03/01/17 at 16:23:27
 

Nikola had the tower for electrical distribution built, but he kept it to himself that it would have been *free* power to the people. Yeah, they didn't like that much. Supposedly the government also absconded with some of Nikola's projects - he was supposed to have worked with the government on the Philadelphia Experiment - but one would think they'd have taken better care of him if that was the case.


https://vault.fbi.gov/nikola-tesla

http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.html

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #9 - 03/01/17 at 16:34:01
 
The powerful wanted him silenced and did just that. Besides the Phili-EXP, Einstein had more to say too....he was kept quiet/play ball..... .

So to add to this and my Reply #7, lets coda back to my indirect analogous thesis: "432 to 440.........why am I not surprised?" .....my first post.

Let's not be naïve as I mentioned.......... .
Great paper Steve ~ thank you.

Thanks LR, for posting those Links....for those that live in naivete about this and all that is analogous........ .




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Archie
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #10 - 03/01/17 at 18:25:14
 
Nick,

Quote:
Unfortunately the rest of your comments I have some issues with. A lot of what Steve has written in his article is scientific fact. You can't refute these by using phrases like 'presumably', 'I'll bet', and 'I'm guessing'.

Example: "People with 'Perfect Pitch' presumably are tuned to the 440 Hz scale". In fact perfect pitch is a feat of memory, and the listener, however gifted with this rare skill, still needs a memory of the note to refer to in order to achieve the trick. So, since the change to 440 Hz people with this ability have 'learnt' that 440 Hz is an A instead of the 432 Hz one.


I'm not sure what part of my comment you don't like since you seem to be agreeing with me?  I used the word "tuned" and you use the word "memory."  Same thing, no?

Also, when I read something like "scientific fact" to prove a point I see red flags.

You seem to be making my point as far as "Asian music" as well.  It is based on a different scale.  My aim was to point out that 432 Hz may be more of a convention than an absolute Universal Standard.

I use wiggle words since, unlike those who state "scientific facts," I'm never certain that there isn't more out there and I don't want to be thought of as thinking I have all the answers.   Tongue

I like Syd's reference to pi since I've always thought that it should be an absolute number and that it doesn't seem to be (out to, I don't know how many decimal places) indicates that our mathematics has some fundamental flaw in it.  But, I'm just an idiot with a computer so I could be wrong.   Smiley

BTW, (and this I am sure of) Math is NOT the Universal language.  Love is the Universal language.

Oh, and did my comments provoke this??????:  

Quote:
I know we're now famously in the post-truth era where science can be refuted by shouting loudly and 'so-called experts' whose pronouncements we don't like are no doubt driven by their shadowy political agendas, but here in this little quiet backwater of the internet I believe a rather more sober, thoughtful approach ought to prevail.


If so, you should be careful not to put your baggage on another.
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mark58
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #11 - 03/01/17 at 18:29:32
 
Not gonna touch this thread...haha
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Archie
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #12 - 03/01/17 at 18:33:58
 
Quote:
Not gonna touch this thread...haha



Chicken!   Grin
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #13 - 03/01/17 at 20:10:03
 
Regarding Archie's last question:

"Oh, and did my comments provoke this??????:  

Quote:
I know we're now famously in the post-truth era where science can be refuted by shouting loudly and 'so-called experts' whose pronouncements we don't like are no doubt driven by their shadowy political agendas, but here in this little quiet backwater of the internet I believe a rather more sober, thoughtful approach ought to prevail."

I think it was an observation of our (American) current political/cultural state that seems to be at the front end of many conversations.... Guessing. Cool
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donovan
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #14 - 03/02/17 at 04:44:27
 
@ Nick

It's called Return To 432

Or if you have Audacity you can use that as well. RT432 was $20 when I got it. Now it is $30.  :( Audacity is of course free.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #15 - 03/02/17 at 13:07:27
 
Many thanks donovan. I actually have Audacity already but I wasn't aware it could do that!

@ Archie - apologies if my rather excitable comments yesterday got a bit personal but I stand by the gist of them absolutely. And yes I have kind of roped your comments into the more general trend these days for rubbishing 'so-called experts' but it did seem appropriate at the time.

@ Hekowee - Americans don't have a monopoly on foolishness. This trend infects us here in Europe too.
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Archie
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #16 - 03/02/17 at 17:29:18
 
Nick,

I'm not sure what I said earlier that came across as "rubbishing experts?"  Believe it or not, I have a strong science background.  I think that's where some of my science skepticism comes from -- knowing the limits from an inside perspective.  If you are as conversant in science as you seem to be asserting then you know that strongly questioning what you think you know is at the heart of good science.  My original post was to suggest that Steve hears 432 Hz as "right" can be explained by his growing up with that as his musical standard.  How this relates to a science "shout-down" escapes me.   Undecided

To add to the subject of this thread, if Steve has found a fundamental truth about sound, then it must apply to the Earth only since his calculations started from the procession of the Earth on its axis.  I've heard of "music of the spheres" and I'm not sure if this relates.  Perhaps each astronomical body has its own "sound?"  I suppose that the Universe vibrates at some fundamental frequency and so has its own sound too?  The rishis of old came up with AUM from listening to the "original" sound.

 
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mark58
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #17 - 03/02/17 at 17:48:22
 
Archie, here here on getting it right. And I quote you..."Believe it or not, I have a strong science background.  I think that's where some of my science skepticism comes from -- knowing the limits from an inside perspective.  If you are as conversant in science as you seem to be asserting then you know that strongly questioning what you think you know is at the heart of good science."

The comments to follow have nothing to do with Steve's article or this thread...I've read neither but rather to the pervasive shouts that "THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED" that abound today.  Anyone familiar with the scientific method and Science knows this not to be true.  Then there are all the whistle blowers that have revealed the manipulation of data to come to a predetermined conclusion.  I too am a skeptic, Archie Smiley  Mark.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #18 - 03/03/17 at 00:20:27
 
Thanks Mark.  People are the same whether they are fundamentalists with their religion or their science -- or whatever.  I was inspired early on by Emerson's essay, "Circles," in which he uses a circle for a metaphor for each or our personal universes.  He points out that there is always someone who can draw their circle around ours.  His best line is when he warns, "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.  Then all things are at risk."!

Good to keep in mind when we start thinking we've got things figured out.   Smiley  

BTW, my comments above are not pointed at Steve or his paper other than in the most positive way.
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mark58
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #19 - 03/03/17 at 00:38:22
 
"Circles"... Ralph Waldo Emerson.  It's on my to read list. As is Steve's article.  Thanks, Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #20 - 03/03/17 at 00:52:24
 
You'll love it.  Get his whole set of essays while your at it.
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Nick OSiris
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #21 - 03/03/17 at 09:26:27
 
Yes I should have made myself clearer in my last post. The bit "And yes I have kind of roped your comments into the more general trend...." should have read "And yes I have perhaps unfairly roped your comments into the more general trend..."

Anyway, those with access to the iPlayer should check out Dr Helen Czerski's new two part documentary 'Sound Waves - The Symphony of Physics' on ... well you can probably guess. Highly recommended.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #22 - 03/03/17 at 15:58:31
 
Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Nick, thanks for clarifying that.  I completely missed your intention the first time around.  I unfairly roped your comments into the more general trend of "blind" science supporters defending against "blind" science deniers.  LOL!   Grin  
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #23 - 03/05/17 at 18:33:49
 
Since my front end is a modified Technics 1200 TT, I have +/- 8% pitch control.  I set it just below -2% and I don't hear any difference.  Once again, my hat off to Steve and others with the aural sensitivity to pick this difference up.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #24 - 03/07/17 at 02:14:50
 
Just a quick note about Tesla's wireless energy technology- hopefully I won't be killed for this!  :o

It is in my belief that Tesla was trying to excite the natural resonant frequency of the earth's atmosphere, which is known as the Schumann resonance. The fundamental frequency is around 7.83Hz, which is an extremely long frequency. Being an extremely low frequency, this means it can travel extremely far, but we also have to take into effect that exciting this frequency at a single point would effect/energize the entire system, as it's the resonant frequency.

It is also important to note that 7.83hz is in the range of Theta brainwaves, and in the edge of Alpha brainwaves. Both are dominant in meditative and learning states. It's interesting to note that we are being swarmed by 50-60hz energy, as well as all types of radio and microwave frequencies from cellphones, radio stations, radar, etc. Some argue that this has created havoc on the brain. Shield your home, anyone?  :D

Anyway, it is in my belief that swamping the atmosphere with extremely high amounts electrons- or negative ions- at a frequency of 7.83hz would allow attena's tuned to 7.83hz to wirelessly draw power from the charged atmosphere at quite a distance- obviously the square inverse law applies here, although probably less than normal as we are exciting the atmosphere's resonant frequency. It is also notable that sense this frequency is extremely low; one that all life has evolved to- and is correlated with a positive brainwave state- that probably no negative effect would happen- possibly even positive by re-balancing the frequency/ harmonic spectrum of the atmosphere to one we evolved to.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #25 - 03/07/17 at 16:24:04
 
Thanks for posting Ninja.

The injustice/treatment of Tesla IMO, was a crime. All the way to the end/his death, when they confiscated his Paper's in the Hotel..... .

It was funny, growing up, starting in grade school, it was Edison this and Edison that....with his bro-mance crony Henry Ford. Then, when I was old enough and smart enough to learn about true history.....Tesla was the true genius of geniuses, IMHO.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #26 - 03/07/17 at 16:51:56
 

Quote:
It was funny, growing up, starting in grade school, it was Edison this and Edison that....with his bro-mance crony Henry Ford. Then, when I was old enough and smart enough to learn about true history.....Tesla was the true genius of geniuses, IMHO.


Dude, almost word for word my gripe. It's this BS that drove home the point that our history, our education, has been...steered.  I had one high school teacher who mentioned Tesla when I was bout 15-16. There was so very little information on him, and I really had to dig into various libraries to find the 2-3 books that existed on Tesla. This particular teacher was a bit of a weirdo, and definitely a free thinker. If he were still around today I'd give him a big damn hug and thank him for causing me to question everything. In a way, that was what sent me down the path of audio, researching SETs, finding Steve, and being where I am today. Pretty good for an offhanded comment from a teacher in woodshop.  ;)
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #27 - 03/07/17 at 17:25:06
 
Quote:
It is also notable that sense this frequency is extremely low; one that all life has evolved to- and is correlated with a positive brainwave state- that probably no negative effect would happen- possibly even positive by re-balancing the frequency/ harmonic spectrum of the atmosphere to one we evolved to.


If you want a different take on what's quoted above, read Becker's "The Body Electric."  It is because life evolved under the influence of ELF (extremely low frequencies) that their artificial use is so damaging to us.  The Navy's ELF arrays for submarine communication have been very controversial in the communities where they are sighted (nearby).

And yes, electromagnetic pollution is a HUGE problem and along with other pollutants is responsible for people's degraded health -- including many of the odd modern diseases that don't seem to have a diagnosable cause.  Ever since the use of electricity we've been subject to this pollution but with all-pervasive wireless technology we are now swamped in it.  Our bodies are electro-chemical and vibration based.  It makes sense that a constant bombardment of electrical energy from the outside would be a bad thing.  It is hard to avoid since we willingly bring it into our homes.   Embarrassed

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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #28 - 03/07/17 at 19:02:31
 
Tesla was at the sticky end of our understanding circuits at tech college. Flux density had to be taken into account. He had a unit of something or other named after him though I dont think it was flux density. We even used "Teslas" as a kind of swear word.lol. Ah the dim and distant.
I`ve seen photo or drawing of his transmission mast, he was far out. Considered too dangerous I think by the Soviets or other powers. The fear was low frequency as a weapon.



Not as bad as I thought. 1.5 Hz
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #29 - 03/07/17 at 22:55:38
 
It is flux density, one weber per meter squared, but I'm sure you could have Googled it....  :)
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #30 - 03/08/17 at 00:06:49
 
A very interesting find I just came across. I'm still skimming though, but here is a short tidbit at the bottom.

US 6485963 B1 https://www.google.com/patents/US6485963
US 6673597 B2 https://www.google.com/patents/US6673597

"The invention described herein was made by an employee of the United States Government and may be manufactured and used by or for the Government of the United States of America for governmental purposes without the payment of any royalties thereon or therefor."

1. A system for growing biological cells, comprising:
...an electrical current passed through said cell carriers for producing an electromagnetic field within said cell-rich medium...

10. The system of claim 1, wherein said electrical current induces cellular control of growth and differentiation, for suppressing or enhancing growth regulatory functions at gene level...

12. The system of claim 1, wherein said electrical current is associated with a time varying potential... (FREQUENCY!)

"The present invention relates to a system and method for culturing biological cells, such as mammalian cells, within a culture medium. The cells are exposed to an electromagnetic field, which, in the preferred embodiment, is a time-varying electromagnetic field."
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #31 - 03/08/17 at 01:52:39
 
One of the intents of the article I wrote was to highlight what it is in recordings that perplex us as audiophiles... which is to say what is it that makes some recordings so much worse than we imagine they could be. The article was one thing, but as one of my dear customers pointed out in an email recently Just Intonation vs equal temperament are also big players. He was kind enough to send a video that clearly illustrate what this is and lets you clearly hear the difference. Now if you watch this video, and combine this with the 432 mathematics of my article you can see where audio gear can easily be falsely blamed for sounding bad when it was in fact the gears increased resolution that made it impossible to ignore the effects of these things on our music.

Here is a link to the short video:

https://www.decware.com/newsite/JTVSET.mp4
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #32 - 03/08/17 at 01:59:32
 

FWIW, I have to say that particularly in the last section of the video where Bach's prelude #1 is played in both tunings, the tempered makes my head want to explode.  Literally, it does.

Steve
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Reply #33 - 03/08/17 at 12:20:03
 
Yeah well try listening to John Martyn's Solid Air album at work with the Decware site open and then try to figure out where this audio overlay was coming from...freaking trippy.

JD
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #34 - 03/08/17 at 18:15:49
 
Yes, the difference was stark!  But what did I just hear?  Was it a simple re-tuning from 440 to 432 Hz?  Or something more?  The narrator seemed to say that even Bach struggled to get those tones -- presumably his instruments were tuned to the 432 Hz scale?

I'm not getting anything like this difference (none that I hear actually) when I pitch down my TT 1.8%.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #35 - 03/08/17 at 18:57:27
 

See if this helps - it's a beginners description.

http://joostdevblog.blogspot.nl/2014/08/the-gross-imperfections-of-tuning-in.htm...


When you're turning down your tuntable, you're bringing everything down equally. Intonation is about getting the instrument in tune with itself. If the notes are off slightly, they "pulse" or in the video they get chaotic. I think they are exaggerating it a bit in the video.

For a fretless instrument, the musician learns to self-intonate on the fly. But with a guitar for example, the frets are a fixed distance - plus when you press the strings down to meet the fret, you're stretching the string that slight percentage changing the pitch. Add to that, the guitar strings are all different thicknesses, so each one is slightly differently pitched when all pressed equally. To compensate we adjust the length of the string with micro-adjusters usually on the bridge so that the fretted note is bang on pitch. But it's still an imperfect fine tuning - so there are methods to tweak including fretboards that are fanned slightly (not parallel) or frets that are notched slightly upwards or downwards on the fretboard, or special tunings that "sweeten" the notes.

http://www.setitupbetter.com/

I'm not exactly sure about that justonian thing in the video...they don't even appear to exist anymore. It almost seems like a solution looking for a problem.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #36 - 03/08/17 at 19:23:02
 
Thanks LR, that first link helped a lot.  So, that video and Steve's article don't necessarily say the same thing?  That's where I got confused.

I changed my TT pitch based on Donovan's Reply #4 of this thread.  If these are different effects, than pitching down 1.82% might correct for the 440/432 Hz thing but obviously does nothing for the Equal Temperament issue.  Yes?
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #37 - 03/08/17 at 19:33:09
 

Exactly.

I'm not even sure down-pitching your turntable is doing much of anything in general, because I'm not sure the scales Steve mentioned are the same as 440hz pitch. I really didn't run them side by side to see, so I could be wrong.

I think this is more what that video was talking about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inharmonicity

Like I said, the company that did that video isn't even around anymore - it looks like they created software to help correct the inharmonic issues on midi keyboards...but that doesn't help anyone else in the band. (shrug)

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Reply #38 - 03/09/17 at 00:31:46
 
I may have missed the whole point of his paper.  I thought he was saying that the 432 Hz scale was the right one and that it was screwed up by pushing everything up 1.85% to 440 Hz.

That link made my head spin.  Was it dealing with the same thing as that video Steve posted?  Or was it dealing with the harmonics of a single string whereby the resonances would generally be even fractions -- 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, etc as opposed to multiples of 440 Hz as in the video?  Or should I just stay out of the deep end and leave it to the bigger kids?   Tongue
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #39 - 03/09/17 at 02:17:15
 
My point in the article was to say that if you are going to define a musical scale, it makes logical sense to base the math on nature. We ourselves are nature, so if you can base the scale on the mathematics of nature then you should base the scale on the mathematics of nature.

Pitching that scale to 440 Hz could only serve to diminish the power of music. Not to mention, to some it sounds less satisfying and as audiophiles we are all hunting for audio nirvana are we not? Perhaps this 440 tuning is part of what drives so many audiophiles to be dissatisfied and continually search for better gear... or at least fuels some of the inconsistencies associated with playback. On that same note, the creation of even temperament is I believe no less annoying musically so the two tie together and that is why I posted the video that was kindly given to me.  
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #40 - 03/09/17 at 16:44:04
 
Quote:
We ourselves are nature, so if you can base the scale on the mathematics of nature then you should base the scale on the mathematics of nature.


This statement says a lot.  By examining "modern" life, it's obvious that the problem isn't just limited to the musical scale!

"Be plain and simple to be identical with Nature."  This is a Maxim that I try to live by -- with varying degrees of success.   Undecided
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #41 - 03/09/17 at 17:15:14
 
One of my favorite poems addresses this. . . I loved this poem decades ago but it's more true now than ever.

The World Is Too Much With Us

BY WILLIAM WORDSWORTH

The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;—
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon;
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers;
For this, for everything, we are out of tune;
It moves us not. Great God! I’d rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathèd horn.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #42 - 03/09/17 at 17:35:52
 
I`ve just been reading about clavichord tuning, an instrument Bach used. So many nuances to it that you need to be scholarly to wrap your head round it all. It`s a language unto itsef.
Guitars I understand. We get the concert pitch from the middle C of the piano. Next best is the bassist who never goes out of tune. I rarely use a `aid` or meter, used to have a tuning fork. Once the increments are set at the 12 fret ( one octave above open string ) tuning is simple using the fifth and seventh fret harmonics listening as stone says for the `beat` to disappear while you tune one string to the next. Cant say whether I`m near the `good` tuning or not. I start with the open E string and play around on the 3rd, 5th and open fret till it sounds comfy. Then tune.
Then the fine tuning...by ear. Play  chords anywhere note by note until all sounds good.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #43 - 03/09/17 at 19:08:13
 
Am I understanding all of this right in that there is no "perfect tuning" and that it will always go off pitch at some point?  This is what happened to even Bach and that the "Equal Temperament" tuning is only an attempt at making things sound less bad?  If this is the case then isn't it logical to assume that our musical scale/tones or whatever the correct term is, is somehow fundamentally wrong?  Is there a system of musical tones that holds together?  Is this the "Holy Grail" of music?
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #44 - 03/09/17 at 21:21:32
 

That's what I was getting at.  I think anything analog, especially strings - just can't be tuned perfectly. But as I type that, I'm thinking about Steve's giant chimes. They can, individually be tuned really close. So I'm wondering if they have "beating" or chaotic chords.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #45 - 03/09/17 at 21:50:51
 
Segovia would have known a thing or two.
...and Hendrix who tuned his guitars down a half tone. I like to think his increments were slightly out as he would turn right handed guitars upside down meaning the angle of the bridge was opposite. As a left hander I`ve tried this and sometimes there isn`t enought travel on the saddles to get them all spot on. He always sounds so user friendly.
Having the 12th fret a touch sharp gives added bite when you go past there for solos.
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #46 - 03/11/17 at 05:57:26
 
Hey Lon,

"Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers". One of my all time favorite lines from any poem from any time frame.

Randy
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Re: Steve's new Article/Paper
Reply #47 - 03/11/17 at 09:25:07
 
Bottlehead wrote on 03/11/17 at 05:57:26:
Hey Lon,

"Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers". One of my all time favorite lines from any poem from any time frame.

Randy


Yes, me too. . . . A powerful poem.
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