When I bought and heard the ZMA I was "done".  This would be my last amp.  Well, things do change (moved with bigger room) and as much as I like the ZMA I simply need more power for my 87dB speakers.  The monos don't seem like the solution price wise so I'm going in another direction.

My ZMA is serial number 10.  I originally ordered the Torii IV and during my build wait the ZMA was being offered.  The ZMA was more what I needed power wise, so Steve let me keep the Torii while the ZMA was being built.   I drove to make the amp exchange so the Pelican case is still mint.

I'm asking $4,400 plus shipping.  Continental US only please.  If you are within driving distance to Cincinnati, gas is cheaper than shipping for sure.  I tried and liked the KT66s in the Torii so when I upgraded to the ZMA I still had those.  I'll pass those (basically unused) tubes along with the deal so you will have two quads, plenty to power you well into the future.   If you would like the amp shipped to Steve for re-warranty purposes that can be arranged.

Scott

[img][/img]

Here are the tubes.

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Oh Scott, you're killin' me.  Now I'll have to watch this and hope it sells before I do something stupid.  My least efficient speaker is the HR-1 that's well driven by my Torii/CSP3 combo.  All my other speakers are more efficient and do well with my 2 WPC monoblocks.  Even still I lust after your Red Capped beauty.

Have you tried a CSP3 to get more gain?  Have you talked to Steve to see if there's anyway to bump up the headroom?  I remember the discussion here about your speakers and the ZMA...I thought the ZMA had done the trick.

Anyway, good luck and I hope it's a quick sale...for my sake  ;D Mark.

OK, one question.  Is your ZMA set up for 4 to 8 ohm or 8 to 16 ohm speakers? Stepped attenuator?  Mark

The amp is set up for 4 to 8 ohms.  I did not get the stepped attenuator.

Raven, I almost didn't post this and if I don't get a good response I may just hold on to the amp.  I truly believe mine is a collectors piece and a work of art.  Everyone who has seen it in person just stares.  I could use the money however to fund whatever I need to do.  I usually don't hold on to gear after making changes.

Changing speakers isn't an option?  I fill a fairly vast space and volume with my CSP3-ZMA-HR1s.  No 9 BTW.  

Beautiful.
I can't imagine this taking very long to sell.
My self control is in overdrive right now.

PM sent

I knew it wasn't going to sit around for long. I thought the price was totally worth it. I don't think the Red caps are available anymore, and no wait time!

So it looks like it took about 6 hours to put me out of my misery...

Thank you Jeff.
I can stop worrying how to justify this to my wife.

Lol Archie, now I can settle down until the next one comes up.  About a year ago on audiogon one went for $3923 with Black Caps, stepped attenuator and the XLR connections....the seller said he had paid $6445.  Obviously he didn't get the introductory price or the red cap offer for first adopters.  I resisted bidding on that one in Jan 2016.  To refresh my memory, now that this beauty has sold, what was the introductory price on these?  I seem to remember about $4700 and free Mallory Red Caps for the first dozen or so.  Mark.

Mark, I recently picked up a used Torii MK IV, although not here.  I wasn't sure if I would prefer the Torii Jr. or the MK IV, but I had an alternate use for whichever one didn't reign superior in my setup.  And then this ZMA came alone...  I believe only a couple of these ZMA's have ever hit the classifieds here, and the price was low enough (still a hefty investment) that I figured I should go ahead and pull the trigger.  It was always my intention to add a ZMA to my setup.  This will replace my Torii Jr. so you will be seeing that amp (<1 year old), as well as my recently purchased (used) MK IV pop up in this section shortly.  

I would say that I am set now!  But we all know how pointless that is to say... Ha!

Yeah, and I will say that my Torii Jr. sounds fantastic with the UFO's so for me this move was not so much a "needed" one as much as simply a "wanted" one.  Having read about each and every amp Steve makes, and now owning several of them, I feel the Decware brand is very much within my flavor preference.  But there is something about that ZMA that has always intrigued me and it wasn't until I got to know Decware amps with more entry level priced purchases, that I felt comfortable spending $4K+ on any given amp.  For me, the risk if very low that I won't love it, and if for some reason I don't, I know I could find a great home for it.  

But yeah, I adore my current setup and am not unhappy by any means.

The funny thing is Mark, I have not had a chance to A/B the two Torii's.  I literally just got the MK IV a few weeks ago and intended on comparing the two and then repurposing the runner up somewhere else in my system - or selling it.  Then the wrench came in, the ZMA.  At this point, I am not sure it makes sense for me to A/B/C the three amps, at least for my benefit. However, if for some reason, the ZMA doesn't quite impress me out of the gate as much as I expect it will in my system, then a MK IV v. Jr. battle would make perfect sense particularly if the ZMA is not staying.  With the extra power of the ZMA, I feel like it is a bit more future proof for me in terms of room and speaker changes.  I am in a house I will likely be moving out of in 2-3 years.  I feel more confident going into the unknown with the ZMA specs than either of the Torii's.  Intangible value at this point, but value nonetheless.  

I hear you on the detail and resolution point.  I like balance, but lean slightly toward the detailed side versus the warmer side.  From what I have read from others, it seems the ZMA achieves the detail without losing its identity as a tube amp, i.e. the warmth.  I shall see  :)

jsm71, when I spoke with him yesterday about this amp, was very confident in saying the ZMA is resolute but in a very musical and non-fatiguing way.  That is the formula I most appreciate.

LOL!  Yeah, I feel like I am back in college and stupidly decided to take 24 units this semester.  The hard part will be sticking to some kind of scientific method of changing one variable at a time.  I better sharpen my pencil!

Well, my hopes are I will have a Torii Jr. or MK IV for you to choose from.  ....or both  ;)

So, I have been sitting in front of my Torii Jr. and Monoliths tonight listening over a pint (or two) taking it all in knowing things are going to change significantly in the amp and speaker departments relatively soon.  I can honestly say, my desire to change/upgrade/improve or whatever word best describes, has nothing to do with my system not sounding absolutely stunning in its current state.  I simply have an opportunity, and the resources to nudge my system closer to my idea of "The Ultimate."  Oops, my glass is empty.  Excuse me while I fill 'er back up.

Yeah, that's a great question Mark.  While I would love to really savor the moment and "do it right," the fact of the matter is there are a couple challenges standing in the way.  In short, I don't have the space in my AV cabinet to do an A/B safely.  I don't have a dedicated listening room in this house so with three kids roaming around, along with neighborhood kids and young nieces and nephews from time to time, I have to keep my amps in the media cabinet behind doors.  In my cabinet I have 4 Decware amps, a ZDSD, an Oppo disc player and cable box.  I have two other Decware amp I have not hooked up as I am waiting for a companion cabinet to accommodate those. But it's not quite large enough to add that additional amp for analysis. There literally is not enough room for another amp in a long-term comparison project.  And it would be long-term.  I'm not quite where I need to be in life where work is optional.  I have a couple business ventures, both in their development/growth phase so I'm burning the candle at both ends.  My listening time is my getaway and I just don't have enough of it at this point where sacrificing the time I do have to potentially split hairs is something I'm willing to do.  So, my buying decisions have been based on a combination of listening to all of your expert opinions, my personal experiences with my amps, as well as that leap of faith that whatever I do purchase will be in line with my preferences.  I guess it really just amounts to timing.  Your suggestion is spot on and had I been a little further down the road in life, I would have definitely harnessed this unique opportunity to sit back and enjoy while my equipment slugs it out.  

I remember those days JofA. I had four kids running around. I alway's had a dedicated room since 1996 though (my first Decware Amp 2001). I'm semi retired at 53. You will get there!

I hope the ZMA works out for you. I have owned: SuperZen CKC, SE84CS, EL34 Mono's in, Torii III and now my ZMA. No looking back for me and my associated equipment + NOS tubes, honed from 37 years in the hobby.

Good luck to you.





Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder ++
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps.






Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord QuteHD, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.

You bet Jeff. I enjoy taking the time to be on this Forum. Decware Amps and my ZDSD have brought me such musical pleasure + my associated honed Cables, modded' Adagio's and NOS Plat Tubes.

I look forward to your impressions.

Hi Jeff,

I was wondering if everything arrived intact.  I wasn't sure if you hadn't gotten to the new toy yet or if you were in fact listening deep into the night.  Glad to hear it's the later.  

I'm guessing after everything settles after the long journey it will sweeten just a bit more.  I'm glad you're happy.  What differences in this step up are you realizing?  I had the Torii IV as well so I've got a pretty good idea.

Scott

To set the stage, the Torii Jr. that this ZMA replaced was not outfitted with a stock tube setup.  The most notable difference was a pair of 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields, aka "Holy Grails."  The other substitute was the USAF 596 rectifier tube.  I kept the EL34's to take advantage of the CCE mod, but have not done any rolling in those sockets to evaluate other options.

On the other hand, the ZMA is entirely stock.  

So, while not the best A/B comparison - since I deviated from Steve's voicing of the Torii Jr. amp with my tube choices - there are some features of the ZMA's differences that I believe are not attributable to the stock vs rolled tube lineup.  

BASS
Immediately apparent was the BASS difference.  The ZMA and Torii Jr. are not even in the same class when it comes to the bass drive.  It is significantly more dense and powerful with the ZMA - at the same listening levels.  This is of course through my Monoliths.  Often I would augment my 2-channel listening with bass produced through my very musical Vienna Acoustics sealed Subson subwoofer.  With the Torii Jr., the "midrange option" I chose on my DM946's produced a considerable mid-range presence (as it was designed to).  However, without the bass to balance the mid's and high's on my Monoliths, I would often inject some subwoofer bass which brought the right balance when the mid and top ranges were overwhelming.  Up until now, I just assumed it was the speakers limitation.  The Monoliths had bass with my TJ, just not enough to create that balance in my room with my system.  With the ZMA, my monoliths came alive!  The base is tight and deep.  I can actual feel the bass which was just not possible with the TJ unless I turned it up to an uncomfortable level, and then the mids/highs were unbearable.  For anyone curious as to how the Monoliths pair with the ZMA - fantastically!  I am moving the Monoliths to my rear channels for 5.1 once my new Omega Super Alnico High Outputs arrive.  I hope that they can fulfill the same bass role as these Monoliths without having to once again rely on my sub for 2-ch listening.  Bass... better!  Enough said.

DYNAMICS
The ZMA has the edge in this category as well.  Overall, with what I have heard so far, the ZMA is simply ballsier across the board. The energy creates a speed and contrast in volumes that is superior.  This was not huge, but definitely noticeable.  

NATURALNESS
The amp just sounds more real.  I felt more submersed in the music than I had prior with the TJ, which was very accurate the way it was tubed, but if I closed my eyes, I would be fooled more by the ZMA as being in a live performance.  

WARMTH
Compared to the Torii Jr., the ZMA was significantly warmer.  Now, I can't remember the stock sound of the TJ, so this could be a product of how I modified the sound with my tube rolling.  For those who lean toward a warmer sound signature, this will please them.  For me, it may be a smidge on the warm side so I do plan to roll some input tubes and evaluate the changes.  I picked up (4) sister tubes to my Holy Grails, the 1974 version that I will put in place of the stock tubes.  I love the sound regardless, so even if it remains stock, I won't be disappointed. But if I could shave off a hint of the warmth I think I would be in my ultimate happy zone.  With its warmth, it still has awesome definition and is not opaque or muddy.  It's also very listenable with zero fatigue.  I hope if I do reduce the warmth slightly, that it won't affect this aspect of the amp.  This also could self resolve with the Omegas once they arrive.  

That is it for now.  These were the most apparent and easy to identify differences.  More commentary will require more listening across different sources and music types.  

All in all, the ZMA is a very transparent, articulate, and musical amp that I am so far VERY pleased with.

The Torii Jr. (with my speakers and room configuration) is a great amp and I am by no means unhappy with the sound.  Everything around the amp equal, having spent a little bit of time with the ZMA, it will remain as my new 2-channel amplifier over the Torii Jr.

Thanks Lon.  Yeah, the dependance on so many other factors makes it difficult to provide a ton of useful commentary for others to act on.  From pre-amps, to source differences, room differences, etc. it is not just about the amp and speakers where one can expect to drop only those two components in their homes and expect the same results.  

It's kind of like a custom hot rod.  You can swap out carburetors and analyze the effects of that variable change on that particular vehicle, but one cannot simply drop in that carb in their car and expect the same performance. Their car - even being the same model and engine size - will likely have differences in camshafts, ignition systems, heads, fuel types, etc. which will lead to variances in results.  

That being said, there are certain features of these "parts" of the audio system that will universally influence most people's experiences and that is where this type of sharing of information is invaluable.