i'll start...  been running this combo with no desire to change anything for over 8-10months in my csp3.

Input Tube: nos Amperex 7308 orange label
L/R  Output Tubes: nos Mullard ECC88/6DJ8
Rectifier: nos Mullard 5AR4 metal base
Use: both
Sonic Description: transparent, laid back, detailed.  great stage and depth.
Input gain: 8
Output gain: 6 (ie 12 oclock)

I'll weigh in about my CSP2+ (beeswax caps, stepped attenuator):

Input Tube: Valvo CCa
L/R  Output Tubes: Valvo CCa
Rectifier: RCA 5Y3G
Use: I use the CSP2+ as both a headphone amp (fed currently by my Cambridge Audio CXU) and as a preamp for my ZP3. I don't use it as many do to "shape the sound" of the Torii, I never could get it to be transparent and uncompressed that way though I tried. I use it more as a traditional preamp for the ZP3, and as a headphone amp for my Oppo PM-1 (works splendidly with those phones, better than the Taboo Mk III I have for my Audeze LCD-2.)
Sonic Description: I found these Valvo (probably made by Siemens) CCa on ebay and these with the 5Y3G rectifier (old RCA, this tube type seems to give the most accurate playback in the CSP2+ for my system) really give a very close signature to the Amperex 7308s I use in the Torii Mk III. The other input on the Torii is used with my PS Audio DirectStream DAC, and that input gets the most use for CD, SACD, Blu-ray, DVD and DVR sound. I like the CSP2+ with this tube complement as a headphone and vinyl source--quick, detailed, not at all harsh.

So, after a bunch of listening and tube rolling, I have fallen hard for this combination:

Input Tube: Amperex 7308 (orange globe)
L/R  Output Tubes: Siemens Rohre E288CC
Rectifier: Mazda 5y3gb (ST bottle type)
Use: Preamp only
Sonic Description: well, it seems like I can have my cake and eat it too! Is it possible to have the speed, detail, liveliness and an expansive soundstage in all directions, while maintaining an organic, natural sound that is both full and textured, AND dynamic? That's exactly how I would describe what I am hearing thru my CSP2+ (modded with the great sounding higher end Jupiter Copper Foil caps) now. Love it!

I'll add that I use a Furutech fuse, and a PS Audio PerfectWave AC-12 power cord. Interconnects used are VooDoo Cable Stradivarius and Stradivarius Cremona.

Here is what I am currently using in my Jupiter capped CSP3:

Input Tube: Amperex 7308 (white label)
L/R  Output Tubes: Russian 6N1P-E E88CC 3x MICA ~ CCa Tubes 1960`s Black Boxed Anode
Rectifier: Mullard GZ32 (early 1980's)
Use: Preamp only

HK

Curious how this topic might have evolved over the last 5 years.  Once this tube buying hysteria hopefully evens out, I'd like to explore ideas for tube upgrades for my new CSP3.  

What are some beloved combinations?

Hi Brad.  So, you are all in with Cryotone.

Can you describe the differences in sound, and why these are better?

Thanks buddy,

Geno

Yep, just a few bad days, and then a few more weeks to get rid of the rest of the congestion.

Thanks for asking.

You can’t keep a good conservative(I mean, man) down  ;)

Best,

Geno

Brad - I went on the Wathen website and came up with the following:

5AR4-WC (rectifier) = $120
6SN7GT-WC = $121 each  (2)
ECC88-WC = $110

Does that sound about right?  $472?

Or is there a unmarked door down a dimly lit alley where the cool kids get them cheaper?

Question for you kool kids with a CSP3. You using the 6SN7 in the output/buffer, anyone ever use a 6SL7 in that slot?

Thanks Lon,

Don't have a CSP3, but I use them in my Freya +. Unfortunately the 6SL7 doesn't play nice in the gain stage, but are great in the buffer. Have converters for it . Hopefully I can pick up a CSP3 on the secondary market.

Brad,

How did you go about deciding where to use the 6SN7 and the ECC88 tubes, seeing that there are several different possible combinations?

Doug

I think Steve would say "buy Cryotone tubes" for the Decware components as THE upgrade, and is working to make that a "complete" possibility.

What I've done mostly for tube rolling is to watch the Forum and when members start raving about a particular tube, I check it out.

One point with the Cryotone tubes and Steve's recommendations -- more than once, Steve's favored tube choice and I didn't get along.  Given the limited variety of Cryotone tubes currently available, I'm not sure they would always be the go to option.

Lon, that is clearly next level!!

Do I understand y'all correctly that the Cryotone tubes that Brad recommended are also blessed by Steve?

I do think Steve ought to offer salvation and passage into the pearly gates as a 25th anniversary mod....

Yes, there was an official thread and announcement by Steve about Cryotone, but it was accidentally deleted, and he also mentioned it elsewhere. He says they better NOS and there is a 10 percent discount he arranged with Cryotone for Decware, and he has mentioned several places in the forum that he is really excited by their products.

I ordered a pair last weekend but there's been no shipment yet.

Here is one of the posts that Steve created about Cryotone:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1647622586/18#18

DS,

I have the ECC88-WC in my Torii. They are not the romantic tube sound. They are very good. JJ ECC88 I found to be a little edgy and grainy. Cryotone removes that and offers a very pleasing, detailed sound.

Thank you GroovySauce and JOMAN for the insight.  Very helpful.

I really don't know that much about tubes.  The CSP3 manual says for the output tubes to use either 6N1P-EB or 6922.  Do 12AU7's fit that criteria?

I plan to give the Wathen recipe a go.  I'm extremely satisfied with the stock tubes, but in typical audiophile logic in which "satisfied" is never good enough, I can't help but wonder that if the stock tubes sound this good, how much better might these swank boutique tubes sound?

For contrast, what are some recommendations for a romantic old school CSP3 tube cocktail?

The biggest thing I've found with my 6 weeks with the CSP3/ ZR2 is the heightened emotional connection to the music.  It's difficult to quantify exactly why or how that is, but it's real and exhilarating.

Thanks!

Does the 6SN7GT-WC from cryotone require an adapter?  What about the EC88?

Is it the "long plate" that necessitates an adapter?

There are 12 preamp cryotubes listed on the Wathen website.  Which ones work well with the CSP3?

I have a difficult time taking the info in the CSP3 manual and then going to the Wathen website and having any idea which preamp tubes are appropriate because the CSP3 manual and the Wathen website use different names for the tubes.

Help is appreciated!

JOMAN, could you please post an actual link to the adapter you use?  

Thanks

Thanks Lon.  

By virtue of not being a "12" tube does that mean that the 6SN7GT-WC and EC88 cryotubes do not require an adapter?

And how might those two differ sonically from a 12AU7?

Thanks.  Lon, that is the correct link.

The manuals will specify which tubes are compatible; ECC88/6DJ8, PCC88/7DJ8, E88CC/6922 and so on.

The pin out for those is different than the pin out of 12AXX series tubes and so requires an adapter to make them compatible with the way the sockets on the amp/pre amp are wired.

The 6NS7 series pin outs are different from the 12AXX and ECC88/6DJ8 and so require a different adapter than the one I'm using regardless of who makes the tube.  The Cryotube 6SN7 will require and adapter.

Long Plate simply refers to the length of the plates in the glass envelope and does not affect the pin out.  So a 12AU7 Long Plate pin out is the same as the pin out of a "standard" length plate of a 12AU7 but not the same pin out as the ECC88 and/or the 6SN7.  The same would apply for the 12AX7.

As to the difference in sound... welcome to the rabbit hole, only one way to really know.  Hence my hate/love feelings for tube rolling.  Definitely has benefits but it can become an addiction that can become a distraction.

Basically you are correct.  Let's look a little closer.

If you are going to try the same set up as I have in the CSP3 here's what you will need:

-1ea 12AU7-WCL Long Plate for the input position, + the 12AXX to ECC88 adapter.  I chose that make (NOS British) as I have more confidence in it's quality... just personal preference.

-2ea ECC88-WC for the output positions, no adapter required

-1ea 5AR4-WC Rectifier, no adapter needed.  

a couple of additional thoughts:

Since you like a more "romantic" sound you may want to get the 5U4GB-WC (no adapter) instead of the 5AR4-WC.  The 5U4G-WC rectifier has more sag and may have more of the type of sound that you would like.

The only reason that I have ordered two more adapters is because I'm going down the rabbit hole and am going to try 2 more 12AU7-WCL Long Plate in the output positions with the one that I have in the input.  You see what I mean by tube rolling becoming an addiction.

ECC88/6DJ8 are direct drop in compatible to the 6N1P tubes that came with your preamp, but they are not identical tubes. There are differences that do not prohibit them both from being used in the preamp. 6N1P-EB (or EV as is often the "translation") are military tubes and though there are usually ways to identify which factory they were manufactured in they generally aren't "branded" as more commercially manufactured tubes are. There are some differences between factories but in my experience not as different as say a tube manufactured in Holland and one in the US etc.

In general, in my experience, the 6N1P have a slightly warmer, slightly less "precise" sound compared to the 6DJ8 types I have used. Not at all dramatically different, but the 6N1P to my ears and in my systems has been slightly more "romantic" in comparison. But. . . in so many ways as John infers you won't know until you personally compare the two in your system, and people are saying the Cryotone "process" changes the sounds of the tubes so that my experience may not match the experience of using a Cryotone version of the type.

You are right in imagining that a recommendation from Steve would hold the best chance of being a "hit." Hopefully you can get advice from him.

I was just checking to make sure that the 12AXX series of tubes will work in the CSP3-A output positions and I don't think they will.  The 12AXX work in circuits are wired in parallel while the the output positions of the CSP-3 are wired in series.

So more checking to confirm.  I will still try the 12AX7 in the input position.

That tube will work perfectly in the ZROCK2.