Forums - ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede

HockessinKid

Seasoned Member

Posts: 1090

ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede
12/03/16 at 23:31:13

Greetings,

I will be purchasing a Decware ZMA amplifier and CSP3 preamplifier in the next several months. These will be paired with a soon to be acquired pair of Omega Super Alnico High Output speakers. My current set up includes a Decware SE84CS EX amp with Hazen Mods powering a older set of Omega speakers.

I would be interested in your suggestions for configuring build options the Mystery Amp and CSP3 preamp. While the Omega's have a 99dB sensitivity rating, I may drive some more demanding speakers at a later date. Also, I have my preamp and source equipment (TRL modified Sony DVP-NS900V SACD/CD Player, Nottingham Interspace TT, Dynavector P-75 mkII phono preamp, and DIY Felix power conditioner) off to the side of the room, running a 4M single ended IC from the preamp to my Decware amp (located between the speakers).

My system goal is extremely accurate sound reproduction of live music events. I strive for a high resolution system that is neutral, dynamic, and tonally accurate. My current Decware - Omega combination, gets me almost there.

BTW, this is likely to be my last system rebuild. Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

Hockessin Kid

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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables

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Lonely Raven

Seasoned Member

Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567

Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede
Reply #1 - 12/05/16 at 17:39:35

I don't own the CSP3 since I'm going direct from my DAC to my ZMA, but I know the ZMA pretty well. Looking at the current options:

I highly recommend the Cryo'd Beeswax caps - everything I've heard Steve put them in has sounded more neutral and natural.

I don't see a need for stepped attenuators unless you're trying to match volumes (left to right). Unless Steve says the Stepped are better sounding, I just don't see a need. I have read that stepped are supposed to sound better, depending on the quality, but I'd go by Steve's suggestions.

If you have a balanced source, I really like the way the ZMA sounds with balanced inputs. Plus, with balanced, the cables have less of an impact on sound quality. And balanced tends to have more voltage, which the ZMA seems to like on it's input. But again, that depends on your source.

You'll love the ZMA - it's very consistent, and very honest in it's playback. I've pushed speakers that other 40 watt amps would cry about, but the ZMA still makes them sound pretty amazing. Unless Steve comes out with something that's considerably better (like an OTL ZMA like amp), I can't imagine me wanting for something else.

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HockessinKid

Seasoned Member

Posts: 1090

Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede
Reply #2 - 12/06/16 at 14:32:06

Thanks for your suggestions Lonely Raven. I did opt for the Cryo'd Beeswax Jupiter caps and also the stepped attenuators in the CSP3. I have heard very good things about these capacitors from several folks, so to me it was a no brainer.

Since my sources are all single-ended RCA, I decided not to go the balance XLR input route on the ZMA. Since my set up includes a preamp, I asked Steve to configure the ZMA as a pure power amp without the stepped attenuator.

I have had excellent results using Gregg Straley's Reality single-ended RCA interconnects and speaker cable in my current Eastern Electric Minimax pre -Zen amp - Omega Revolution set up. I will likely upgrade to Gregg's new reference line IC's and speaker cable once the new amp and preamp burn in a bit.

Thanks again for your recommendations.

HK

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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables

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Lonely Raven Seasoned Member Jack of all Trades, Master of None Posts: 3567	Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede Reply #3 - 12/06/16 at 17:52:36 Quote: Since my sources are all single-ended RCA, I decided not to go the balance XLR input route on the ZMA. Since my set up includes a preamp, I asked Steve to configure the ZMA as a pure power amp without the stepped attenuator. That's a great solution! You didn't need our suggestions at all! LOL
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stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede
Reply #4 - 12/06/16 at 19:00:49

I owned and used a CSP3 with Jupiter caps for 2 years and 3 months and I'm going on 3 years next month for my ZMA.

I question your not getting the infinite volume control on your ZMA (and a stepped attenuator is a complete no no in my book). Yes, I know you want it out of the path. However, we're talking Steve here....and it (Infinite VC) stays out of the way/better than any other manufacture arguably.

Reason being, you want to be able to compare the ZMA flying solo and with the CSP3 in the chain. The CSP3 is wonderful and you might not be able to live without it. For me? My System so seasoned in and with the output of my ZDSD.......I prefer no Pre now.

The ZMA has a sublime character all its own and can be ferocious when I want it to be..... .

Just me 2 cents. Don't want you wondering..... .

and PS obviously, the CSP3 allows for two inputs.

Rach' in the Que! .....you can never own enough Decware!

Listening Room:

Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder ++
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps.

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord Qute, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.

~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~ 2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.

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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

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stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede
Reply #5 - 12/06/16 at 19:10:45

Furthermore, even if you have a DAC or plan on getting one with volume output in the digital domain or analog.....having control at the ZMA for gain attenuation is important. It came in handy of course with the CSP3 and what voltage output I chose to use.........as well.

Even with the super eff. Omega's you're going to run....augmenting one up and one down and conversely.....is needed IMO. IF, you go to something less eff. (as you mentioned in your first post)? .....applies even more per my below example and my AA gear.

I know voltage output well. Audio Alchemy (Peter Madnick), over two decades ago....had voltage output adjustment in its 3.0 DAC. I still own my DTI-Pro 32 and 3.0 today.

Being able to adjust this voltage output + OUTPUT GAIN AT THE AMP....was the main reason I drove my Decware SE84CS with much success into a pair of Polks for years.

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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

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HockessinKid

Seasoned Member

Posts: 1090

Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede
Reply #6 - 12/06/16 at 20:55:52

Thanks Stone of Tone. I have my preamp and source equipment off to the side of my listening room, with a 12' IC run from my rack with source equipment and preamp. I just don't have the need for or anticipate a future need to run source equipment directly to the ZMA. Steve said no problem configuring the ZMA without the stepped attenuator.

I only have two sources - a TRL modified Sony CD/SACD player and a Dynavector P75MKIII phone pre (Nottingham Interspace TT). So the two inputs on the CSP3 suit me just fine. If I decide to add other sources at some point, I will opt for a switch box.

Granted getting the ZMA without a volume control limits future flexibility (aka use of ZMA as stand alone), but I'm OK with that as my listening room set up will not be changing.

I appreciate your observations and suggestions.

HK

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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables

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Dave1210

Seasoned Member

Posts: 959

Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede
Reply #7 - 12/07/16 at 00:47:00

What is the advantage of a ZMA without a volume control? Less parts in the signal path for greater transparency? Is the slight increase in transparency worth the trade off in flexibility to adjust to the sound of a given recording?

I have always viewed the volume control on the amp as a positive, and a differentiator of Decware vs. many other brands. Steve has introduced the concept of 'riding the gain' to this community and many can attest to improvements in listening experience, even with subtle adjustments.

I also own a ZMA and run my DAC direct. I use the XLR outputs from my DAC (for the extra voltage and noise reduction). I am in the process of trying to convince my better half to separate the TV from our 2 channel system. I would also move my equipment rack off to the side and would likely run a long XLR from my DAC to the ZMA (I don't think I would consider this with single ended inputs). I wasn't planning on this initially...

I haven't planned on selling any of the Decware equipment I purchased and I'm not sure what a ZMA without a volume control would do to resale value.

Moral of the story is flexibility. Your call on whether or not that's a priority for you. I have had my ZMA for about 3 years too. I refer to it as the Zen Musical Amplifier. I agree with LR/Stone, this amp is a keeper! Enjoy!

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HockessinKid Seasoned Member Posts: 1090	Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede Reply #8 - 12/07/16 at 11:37:47 You guys convinced me. I called Decware and added in the volume control back into my ZMA order . HK
Back to top	Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Audio Technica AT-OC9XML cart + Modwright PH 9.0XT phono OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > Snake River Audio & ZenWave cables IP Logged

stone_of_tone Seasoned Member Listen Often/Listen Deep Posts: 3217	Re: ZMA & CSP3 Configuration Recommendations Neede Reply #9 - 12/08/16 at 20:52:19
Back to top	Room Treats-M.Green & mine Sony TPort Illuminati D60 Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord Decware ZDSD DAC Kimber Select KS1030 XLOProPcord Decware ZMA/25th Mods Kimber Select KS6063 Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall to PS Audio P3 IP Logged