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Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help (Read 8756 times)

Ron

Seasoned Member

Posts: 229

Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help
11/10/16 at 10:10:25

I am trying to decide which amp to upgrade to. I have a small room but this is a lifetime amp for me. I have a Mini Torii that I love, and adding a Torii Push Pull to my setup is exactly what I need/am looking for to get the added headroom and weight.

I am 100% pure analog. Vinyl -> Tube Phono Pre (ZP3 soon) -> MiniTorii. Looking at going the open baffle route, 93 dB efficient.

The main reason for this post is I must have read both Torii pages and manuals 10 times. I am trying to determine if the Torii Mk 4 is worth $1000.

T Mk4 Pros: Extra 5 watts of power, auto biasing, dual mono design, single volume control (this is a + for me).

T Mk4 Cons: Not any unless this amp doesnt have UFO transformers. Also having a choke, adjustable damping, reconstructive feedback, and bass/treble adjustments in unused could be considered a con (more to have issues with)?

Trying to determine if the Torii Mk 4 has the UFO transformers, does anyone on the forum know? I emailed Steve last night, I will report back.

T Jr Pros: $1000 cheaper, UFO transformers, minimal design, transformer direct regulated output tubs

T Jr Cons: dual volume knob (not a huge con), running temperature (not a huge con), requires biasing (looks easy, just never have dont it before, prob. not a con), requires matched quads (increased tube replacement cost) also tubes fail at different rates, so without individual bias this might be an issue?

Thats my list, any opinions or input would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to call any of my pros/cons wrong or ugly. Planning on making the purchase here in a couple weeks or so.

Thanks in advance!

Best,
Ron

HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps

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Dominick

Seasoned Member

Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 1422

Re: Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help
Reply #1 - 11/10/16 at 16:44:06

Ron,

I was contemplating the two amps as well. For me....here is one of the many factors which may sway your decision.
This excerpt is taken from the Torii Jr. Owners manual....

" The TORII JR comes from a long line of TORII amps, which all have been designed around EL34 output tubes. Although the big brother to this amp, the TORII MK4 can use your choice of a variety of different output tubes, including KT66, KT77, 6L6 without adjustments, it is important to understand that the TORII JR, can not.
Due to the fixed bias design of this amplifier it must be adjusted for each specific quad of output tubes you put it in it.

We chose the EL34 as the default tube in the TORII JR., because we feel due to the ultra-linear output design the EL34 sounds best in this amp. EL34’s are the only tube that can take advantage of the the Hazen Grid Mod which has been implemented in this amplifier! "

So....if you have absolutely have no interest in tube rolling the output tubes on the fly, then this will make your decision easier.

There are a lot of other features that differentiate between the two amps. I also like that the TORII MKIV has 2 sound signature switches to lean out the bass and treble on the fly. I don't own nor have I heard either amp, but tube rolling on the fly is appealing to me without having to bias them. Plus.....the extra headroom of the Torii MKIV will help if you are using less than efficient speakers.

After going back and forth, I have decided that the extra $$$ is worth the purchase of the Torii MKIV. If this is going to be your lifetime amp.....then I would hold off to save up for the big brother.

Take the advice of others who already own these amps, but this is coming form a guy in the same situation as yourself. Hope this helps.

Dom

Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable, White top ZP3, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]

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Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help Reply #2 - 11/11/16 at 00:41:30 Lifetime? ZMA I don't think the current Torii IV has UL transformers. Not sure what Steve's future plans are. Many here love their Torii IIIs. Second hand might be the best of both worlds. Dominick makes good points about tube rolling.
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busterfree Seasoned Member Posts: 438	Re: Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help Reply #3 - 11/11/16 at 01:34:34 I would choose Torii Mk4. Tube rolling, extra watts, single volume, no biasing, dual mono.
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Ron

Seasoned Member

Posts: 229

Re: Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help
Reply #4 - 11/12/16 at 23:09:48

Thanks for all the input. Had a good couple of chats with Steve during th e week.

All good points. The Torii Mk IV does not have the UFO transformers. At least not now. I asked Steve if either platform will get meters... he has no immediate plans to add them. (Meters on the Torii Jr would be nice, make biasing that much easier).

Matched quads are required on the Torii Jr, recommended on the Torii Mk IV.

Torii Jr. can take the same tubes as the Torii Mk IV, just needs to be re-biased. EL34 is a great tube, KT66 is as well.

I would get stepped attenuators if I went with the Torii Jr. to level out the con of having dual volume knobs.

Being able to drop the choke and OC2 tubes from the circuit is a plus in my book. That was due to the ultra linear design.

Steve did mention that the Torii Jr. is very flexible when it comes to speaker choice. That is what ultra linear is about. Torii Mk IV is more picky with speakers but when you have a good match then magic will happen.

I am currently looking at the HR-1, Vandersteen 1Ci, Spatial M4, or the DNA Horn from a speaker selection. I know I need more power than my Mini Torii now, that amp will either move up to my desk or I will sell it (depending on the amp I choose).

Torii Mk IV also has the adjustability (treble/bass/etc) - all of that has been removed from the Torii Jr.

ZMA is the lifetime amp, for sure, but 5600 is too much $.

Honestly cant really go wrong with either one of these. Just wish I could audition both with my speaker choices and then decide Wink

Thx,
Ron

HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps

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Ron

Seasoned Member

Posts: 229

Re: Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help
Reply #5 - 11/21/16 at 10:37:52

So I got a pair of Spatial M4's home to audition. Something wild happened. The transparency and mid range bloom with my Mini Torii was incredible. Unfortunately that is where it stopped. I just didn't have enough juice to power the woofers.

They drop to a 3 ohm load, so it makes sense that the Mini Torii will suffer. My question that I need to find out (I will call Steve today) is if the Torii Mk IV or the Torii Jr will handle this load and be stable down to 3 ohms.

HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps

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busterfree Seasoned Member Posts: 438	Re: Torii Mk4 v. Torii Jr - Purchase Help Reply #6 - 11/21/16 at 23:54:15 Can yo bi-amp Spatial M4s since you have the extra outputs on the mini torii?
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