Blue,
It is good to know the Torii is seasoned. That you have 200 hours since Decware worked on it...well, it might depend what they did...different parts having more effect on burnin. But whatever the differences between the Torii and what you are used to...comparing the SS amps and what you want, the whole combination of room, amp, speakers need help if possible.
Have you called Steve? He has walked a lot of folks through troubleshooting Decware!
The reason I suggested playing with speaker placement, and using different speakers, is that especially Klipsch seem to be pretty amp dependent to sound good...(the guy who does all the crossover upgrades...is it Crites... apparently does not like tubes). This might support Match's comments on SS and/or a sub, but also, could make working with the Spatials more relevant, to see if you can pull more bass from them once they are loosened up.
Relative to this, there is no question that low room modes here make the bass muddled and seemingly lacking, but in fact, it is too much in the 45 and 69 Hz areas and below 20 Hz (where my speakers are not supposed to go). This is why I suggested trying the switches again disregarding volume in evaluation. Seems you have everything set for strongest bass, but I thought it could be possible your room and speakers are "reacting" to the Torii bass like mine did. I have the switches on 4 ohm, bass off, (most bass) and reconstructive on also. But with EQ, I have carefully placed, but serious low bass cuts, and my bass is tight and low material hits you in the body. This is also with reduced bass power at the amp using OB3s (to reduce power tube intensity, density, including bass) and generally using ECC88/6DJ8s and PCC88/7DJ8s (not always, but generally less bass than E88CC/6922). And finally, Phillips made GZ32 a lower power GZ34/5AR4 type. Both of these tube types tend to be more punchy/articulate/dynamic, with tighter bass than 5U4G types, the GZ34/5AR4 being more powerful, going lower stronger in general.
I was helping someone with Klipsch speakers and a MKIV for a while and GZ34s helped the bass compared to 5U4G straight bottle types. In my experience (generally again), NOS, straight 5U4Gs have been the Torii rectifiers with deepest, though not tightest bass. In this case, with a 5AR4/GZ34, less became more because of how the tube presented bass, not because it went lower.
That the stock 5U4G helped is good information. Are those the brown bass, Chinese, narrow coke bottle shape? This would be the type of one tube Lon recommended, an earlier RCA 5U4G-ST (the ST being the coke bottle shape). The other he recommended is an American variant of a GZ32, a 5V4G. In my experience (again generally) the 5V4G don't go quite as low as the NOS RCA 5U4Gs, but can be tighter and also more spacious in their own way ....maybe sort of between your 5R4GYs and early 50s RCA 5U4G-ST, but again, it is variable.
All the rectifier types have different sounds across the spectrum, and then vary within the types, so it gets tricky. But if your sound could use some tightening and clarifying, GZ32/5V4G (5V4Gs tend to be pretty inexpensive but are relatively variable in tone) or GZ34/5AR4 might be good options. If you know it is lack of bass, the GZ34 has stronger bass. These could increase bass punch and offer slightly more articulate upper end clarity, the RCA 5U4G-ST being less punchy, and having more focus on micro information. The 50s RCA 5U4G-ST with top round getters are the clearer of that tube in my experience with a very neutral tonal balance and amazing potential for micro detail if it is not masked.
Also, I guess your original inputs are NOS Russian 6N23P? Or are they Electro Harmonics 6922s? This matters as the NOS Russian tubes are really good at what they do,
but tend to be a little lighter on bass compared to good quality 6922s.
Some really good E88CCs will generally increase bottom over 7DJ8 and 6N23P. There is a really good sale on some NOS Mullard E88CC at partsconnexion now...a legendary gold pin 6922 type. If you are close, these are good powerful tubes, extended, the full spectrum clear, but also warmish. I use E88CCs, but if I have problems with them, they are "too good"...too powerful, in the face. I prefer the Torii toned down a little in my room/system though. As you are finding, it is all how things work together/balance in a particular setting though, so who knows if this tube would suit.
But as I said above, in most cases, the tubes you have should produce notable bass, that is if the speakers and room "communicate" well with the Torii. Then there is the taste thing...and the amp may have something wrong though it seems unlikely having gone through the paces at Decware ....Too many variables, but if you feel like it is the amp, calling Steve and troubleshooting is the best.
Just for a test, have you tried the Spatials more out in the room? Or more in toward the back wall and out from the sides, trying to carefully "build bass"? OBs seem to need a lot of space, and who knows exactly what your room is doing. I am thinking that if you tried them out more, it could be useful to rule out masking from bass modes/muddle. Then move the bass cut switch to the back (on) and crank the volume some to compensate. If things tighten up in the bottom, this is telling. Then if you moved them out a little more and if bass tightens/opens more, also telling. This could be a way to verify how much room is associated with how the speakers are interacting with the Torii.
Hope this helps.
Will
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Torii Mk IV Tube Bass Sound Question (Read 12757 times)
