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Decware Solid State? (Read 9739 times)
Matchstikman
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Decware Solid State?
04/06/16 at 16:27:04
 
Decware Solid State?  I know this sounds sacrilegious.  I'm a big fan of tubes.  Ok, with that said or written, I own some pretty old Decware stuff.  I have an original Torii and one of the first CSP preamps.  I haven't upgraded because I say to myself, "if it isn't broken, why attempt to fix it?"

Anyway, I blew a tube on the Torii so it has been sitting around for some time.  This weekend I had an urge to hear some music so I plugged in an old Kenwood solid state I have in the closet.

Granted, the Kenwood did not have the same feel as the Torii so that was lost, but it did add SS grunt.  Lots of great bottom.  I'm kind of thinking of getting a SS amp and use a tube preamp.  I'm thinking that would get me the grunt along with the tube feel.

But, what to get?  Van Alstine has always interested me.

But, what if Decware made an SS amp.  What if?

Just sayin...
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DB2
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #1 - 04/06/16 at 16:47:56
 
I think the solid state brand that is nearest to a tube sound would be Luxman -- very smooth. Check out the reviews and see if they interest you.

P.S. The Luxman DA-06 DAC is a great piece of gear. I picked up a used one on Audiogon a couple of years ago and have been very happy with it.
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Matchstikman
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #2 - 04/06/16 at 16:52:50
 
Luxman seems to be very expensive for me.  Besides, all I could find was an integrated amp and I don't want that.  I just want an amp.  However, it does sound like a nice piece of gear.
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Dave1210
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #3 - 04/06/16 at 17:20:09
 
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/gamut-m250i-mono-power-amplifier/?page=2

Obviously these mono-blocks from GamuT are expensive (the stereo version is expensive too), but this strikes me as something I would expect from Decware if they were to make a SS amplifier.  The Decware amp would be a hybrid with a tube input stage.  See below quote from the above review that talks about the simplicity of the GamuT output stage.  

"Thus, where most brawny amps use large numbers of beefy output transistors in banks, the M250i uses just two identical (not complementary), ultra high-capacity (NPN type) MOSFET output transistors—one per voltage rail—and that’s it; output stage completed."
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4krow
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #4 - 04/06/16 at 19:03:02
 
That's funny, I was just thinking of an experiment using a Red Wine Audio SS, battery powered amp for my bass. It doesn't have watts, about 15 per channel, but then I don't really need much bass either. In fact, I was also just noticing that on one recording, I wished that there was LESS bass.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.
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Matchstikman
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #5 - 04/06/16 at 21:26:12
 
I've turned off the subwoofer while using the Kenwood.  The bass is pretty good and probably a bit sharper.  A higher end amp might do the trick.  I'd like to stay in the 1k range.  My fear is falling back into the GAS stage.  I was there about 10 years ago and it was hard to kick the addiction but I did.
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beowulf
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #6 - 04/06/16 at 23:30:00
 
Class A MOSFET amps are some of the best ss IMO, I also like most things I have heard from First Watt (Papa Pass), but those are low wattage mostly so you still need efficient speakers.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #7 - 04/07/16 at 04:28:44
 
Hah, interesting topic...

First off, the TORII's ability to have grunt like you hear from the solid state is completely speaker dependent.  Part of the grunt you're describing comes from higher damping factors found in the solid state amp designs.  The TORII is designed to have intercourse with the speakers and as a result has an intensionally lower damping factor making speaker selection somewhat critical.  If you had a Zen Mystery Amp or a TORII JR, both Ultra-linear, you would have tighter bass leaving the only real variable being power.  In that case, the ZMA is going to be best choice.  My guess is that it would well have more crunch and meat than the Kenwood... seriously.

Moving on to solid state amps, I have to say that so far the only solid state amps I could enjoy for any real length of time are Nelson Passes First Watt designs... go figure.  I'm just not a solid state guy anymore, at least where power amps are concerned.  That said there is one exception beside Nelson's amps.... my EICO.

Growing up and in High School I already had the audio bug pretty bad.  My Dad was a Presbyterian minister, I grew up with a 500 year old German Pipe organ which I agreed to take piano lessons to be able to play... we visited a lot of people.  Basically got dragged into the homes of every family that attended and as a result got exposed to a lot of different stereo gear.  At the time, with Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony, and others, the best sounding electronics I heard was from Harmon Kardon.  

When I decided to buy a receiver in 1976, I went to a stereo shop in the mall with one of those cool back rooms with all the stereo gear on shelves wrapping the room from floor to ceiling, speakers everywhere and a turntable in the center of the room with the switchboard that let you send the signal to any amp and any speaker in the room... fun stuff at the time.  

I couldn't stand my best friends Pioneer receiver which somehow only played KISS albums on a pair of Altec speakers upstairs and a pair of Pioneer speakers downstairs...  Nothing else I heard was much better.  Everything sounding rounded and colored to me except one Harmon Kardon dual mono receiver.  The sound was stuck in my head.  I entered the back room of the stereo shop and felt the rush of 360 degree stereo gear complete with the funny little elf looking guy in the corner.  He asked me what I wanted to hear, and I mater of factually told him I want something that sounds fast and clean  like the Harmon Kardon, not like this Pioneer shit that feels like it's got diarrhea.  He laughed and knew exactly what I was talking about.  He let me hear the various stuff in the room and when it became obvious I wasn't going to buy any of it.. he said to meet him back here in one week, same time.  He will bring a unit from home that sounds better than any of this crap, and sell it to me for $20.

A week later I showed up with $20.  I walked in and here was this tiny little receiver with the entire tuner section ripped out of it, and the case was missing, the name on the front was EICO model 3770.  (just try to find one...)

He fired it up and instantly it was the sound I was hunting for, better even.  The leading edges and decay were perfect.  I was so firkin excited when I got to my car in the parking lot I nearly backed into the light pole.

Turns out this was a very simple Class A1 circuit using Motorola Hard Shell transistors in place of tubes.  It was essentially a tube amp using coupling caps but instead of tubes used the best transistors. Anyway, the circuit is old... old old old, if not the first and holy crap is it good.  I listened to this amp from 1976 to 1986 with a pair of Bose 301 loudspeaker which had no crossover except for a single coupling cap on the paper cone tweeter.  The sound from this combo was in a class by itself.  I have a soft spot for it.  

Interesting a couple years ago I was missing it, wanting to hear what it really did sound like again and actually found one on ebay so I bought it.  Only one channel works and some evening when I'm in the right mood, I'll recap the entire amp and put it into service.  Nevertheless, I listened to the channel that worked and it sounded nearly exactly like an SE84C Zen Triode Amp.  That gave me pause... for a bit... and then I of course dove into the circuit to understand how this is possible and realized that it IS the solid state amp circuit that nothing else can top.  So if I were to ever do anything solid state, it would be an audiophile version of this EICO circuit of about 18 watts.

Steve


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Matchstikman
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #8 - 04/07/16 at 13:35:51
 
Interesting post.  Very interesting.

While the Kenwood has the bottom end grunt, I am unable to use any front end tube setup.  Thus, it is very, very harsh.   OUCH!!
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seikosha
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #9 - 04/07/16 at 14:17:33
 
18 Watt Solid State from Decware?  That'd be really interesting to hear Steve's take on SS.  If you ever do it, sign me up!  :-)
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Mini Torii, SE84UFO, Quicksilver Horn Monos, ZStage, CSP3 Omega Super3XRS, Omega SAM, Omega Junior 8xrs, Cambridge CXC, Shiit Bifrost 2, PS Audio P3 Powerplant
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #10 - 04/07/16 at 15:38:46
 
I've considered purchasing First Watt for years:
http://renohifi.com/FirstInStock.htm

and recently the Pass 30.8
http://renohifi.com/PassUsed/PassUsedInStock.htm

Pass Labs XA-30.8 class-A stereo power amp.  Point-8! Demo, excellent condition, about two months old,  three years transferable factory warranty, all factory accessories, new factory double-boxing, Satisfaction Guaranteed.  S/N 30778.  $4995.  




However, I'm so pleased with my CSP3 with ZMA + the best NOS Tubes from Kevin at Upscale = I'm good....with killer quality bass Matchstik.... .

PS=I might eventually have a 30.8 in for fun!
(the 30.8 has been measured to put out 61 watts/ch of peak power CLASS A)

Like Steve said....get a ZMA to run with your Decware Pre.   Cool
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Matchstikman
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #11 - 08/10/16 at 03:56:16
 
So, Steve, have you started on this? HAHAHAHAHAHA  I've been searching for an EICO model 3770 but haven't found it, yet.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #12 - 08/10/16 at 15:12:33
 
Love to be part of a Beta test....on this. I remember when Steve sent the Taboo out years ago....to make the rounds.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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bvictor
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Re: Decware Solid State?
Reply #13 - 08/10/16 at 17:06:21
 
I'd be down for one, as well!  I'm fascinated by SS, but could never part with tube sound.
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DECWARE: SE34I.2, HDTs; CSP2, TABOO, Zen Styx, RL 1.5s; Mystery Amp, ZDAC-1, Klipsch KLF-30s; Bridged Raches with Klipsch Forte IIs and Monoliths
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