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SS / Torii Comparison (Read 5500 times)
Palomino
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SS / Torii Comparison
07/18/15 at 15:39:54
 
My son is home for the summer and he brought home the Class D amp I gave him when he went away for college.  I couldn't resist putting into my system to see what the comparisons were, especially since I now have upgraded everything since I last listened to it and have a treated room.  

The class D is an Onkyo and is stock except a hifi tuning fuse.  It was maybe $750 new and I don't remember, but I think 75 watts a channel.  It has tone controls, but you can bypass them.  I bought it because the price/value ratio was high in the reviews and it was said to have a tube-like sound.  I didn't know back then what tubes sounded like but I figured that was "good."

Anyway, I put it in and ran through my demo list.  It was crisp and detailed with a respectable sound stage.  I dare say, it sounded pretty decent from a technical standpoint.  Perhaps a bit bright, but not really thin or anything.  Bass was certainly there and tight.

So I popped the Torii III back in.  I had to put the treble shunt wide open to match the brightness of the Class D.  I don't know why I made this adjustment, other than to try to put them on as level a playing field from a detail standpoint.  

I'll spare you the details and get to my point.  The biggest difference between the two amps was not the technical.  Yes, the Torii produced a fuller, more enveloping sound, but the biggest difference was the emotion that came through in the music.  I found myself staying longer on each demo song.  Listening to them all the way through and enjoying them more.  It was just an emotionally more satisfying experience all around.

So while part of the hobby is delving into the technical specs and differentiating between specific attributes of the sound between pieces of equipment, but for me, it all boils down to how your rig makes you feel.

Decware amps make me feel like I have had a rich, emotional experience each time I listen.  Much more reliably and consistently than books or movies.  So for me, its like watching a movie that makes that deep emotional connection each night.

I've actually made that emotional connection with one other amp that I have listened to.  It was the amp that Vinnie Rossi had at Axpona this year.  It was actually a little colored for my taste, but the emotional connection was there.

Anyway, I may have made this point here before, but it was just my moringing's observation.

P.S. what prompted this comparison was actually a movie that I watched last night Ex Machina.  It's sci-fi but did make an emotional connection.  Without giving up too much of the plot, its about forming a emotional attachment with a machine.  I don't know how conscious Steve is in his amp design towards the emotion they elicit, but he has it nailed.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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Lonely Raven
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Re: SS / Torii Comparison
Reply #1 - 07/19/15 at 18:34:26
 

If I could like a post in these forums, this would get a great big "Like".

That's a fantastic writeup, Palo. Too bad we don't have a blog to add it to.  :)

I think Steve is very conscious of the emotional attachment - I think it's what drives him honestly.

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Dave1210
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Re: SS / Torii Comparison
Reply #2 - 07/19/15 at 23:15:49
 
My recent experience supports why you may want to go back to the tubes Steve shipped with the amp after tube rolling.  I was using Gold Lion KT66's in my ZMA for a couple months and recently went back to the Tung Sol’s.  I noticed a significant improvement in pacing/liquidity/engagement with the Tung Sol’s. The amp is back to being the ultimate Zen Musical Amplifier.  I was listening to Yo-Yo Ma’s cello suites (inspired by Bach) the other night and couldn’t help but start waving my hands in the air directing the music. Sounds crazy, but it was an awesome experience!
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lLance
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Re: SS / Torii Comparison
Reply #3 - 07/19/15 at 23:50:00
 
I recently put my Tori MK3 up for sale although I'm not really trying so hard to sell it. I haven't put it on Agon yet. It was my first tube amp and can't help the feeling that I will regret letting it go like I regret selling my 70 SS Camaro in my early 20's. Funny thing, the guy who I bought the Torii from saw it on the forum classified and is thinking about buying it back from me. He too regrets selling it as his foray into SS Amps left a less than disirable Impact emotionally.
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ZMA, ZTpre, VPI Scout 1.1 & Soundsmith Zepher Cart, Janszen zA2.1 Speakers, PS Audio DSD, Berkeley Audio Alpha USB, PS Audio P10, Win 8 & J River app, Morrow Cables Triode Wire Labs #7 & Lessloss PC, voodoo AES
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stone_of_tone
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Re: SS / Torii Comparison
Reply #4 - 07/22/15 at 16:30:57
 
Yes, the emotional connection with the Music through Decware Amps.......... .

I hear you Dave. I, instinctively knew, and never will mess with using any other than the Tung Sol KT66 in my ZMA. Keep your inverter tubes stock too with the 6N23P's. I have a nice bevy of NOS 0A3's too.

The fun and signature change magic, lies in the A12 an B12 positions of the ZMA. I have a pair of Ediswan's in now.....and the decay of instruments and the soundstage are just incredible.

I also have the luxury of density adjustment with my ZMA, down a little from top usable volume and CSP3 volume up (or vice-versa). My CSP3 with Jupiter Caps is a straight wire with "density" gain, due much in part to the two Kimber Select 1030 IC's getting out of the way of the Music.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Dave1210
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Re: SS / Torii Comparison
Reply #5 - 07/23/15 at 04:21:06
 
Stone...what is different/unique about the A12/B12 positions on the ZMA?  

I just looked up the tubes I think you are referring to...Ediswan 6922's, Platinum Grade?
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stone_of_tone
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Re: SS / Torii Comparison
Reply #6 - 07/23/15 at 17:38:47
 
I don't mean to create confusion by using the Owner's manual number positions for the Input Tubes of the ZMA (A12 & B12). I do it, so others do not confuse them with the phase inverter tubes positions. I will just refer to them as the Input Tube positions going forward. We OWN the ZMA.  

I have enjoyed rolling 5 pair of tubes through the Inputs of the ZMA:
The shipped with 6N23P's
NOS Sovtek 6922's (True NOS)
NOS Platinum National 7DJ8's
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8/
NOS Platinum Telefunken 6922"s
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
NOS Platinum Ediswan 6922's
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/ediswan-cv2492-6922/

The Ediswan's are breathtaking in what they are providing to the Output!  
Stunning midrange texture while maintaining top and bottom end extension.....is NOT hyperbole!

Expensive, yeah~and worth it. Highly recommend the Ediswan's with the rest of Steve's Tube compliment shipped:
Tung-Sol KT66's (Bias at: 48 mA)
NOS 0A3 JAN Sylvania USA (or USA RCA NOS 0A3)
6N23P's as inverter's.

I use the NOS Platinum Telefunken 6922 as my Input Tube in my CSP3. Talk about the Master & Commander Tube for my 6N1P-EV's shipped from Steve with the CSP3......clarity/transparency...provided to ZMA.





Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)

AURALiC Vega D/A processor.....coming!

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***

Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
M-CAP® Supreme Silver / Gold & Oil.....pending this Fall!

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)




Decware SE84CS (NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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