Forums - Move over ZOB

4krow

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Move over ZOB
04/30/15 at 03:37:52

That's right, my living room is a mess because I am breaking in new drivers and the ZOB has to move out for a little bit. These are the speakers that I have been making with AN drivers, and the process is coming into form. In the end, my listening area is just not made for speakers of this size and volume, but just the same, I will miss these when they leave. Next project are some speakers for the garage system. Again, AN drivers, but 8" instead of 12. This is going to get interesting.

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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.

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4krow Seasoned Member IMAGINE WHIRLLED PEAS Posts: 1666	Re: Move over ZOB Reply #1 - 05/20/15 at 18:42:57 It's a little crowded for now, but hopefully I will find a local buyer for the big AN speakers.
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4krow

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #2 - 06/04/15 at 19:05:16

I want to add this last comment about the AN speaker project. It has taken a few twists and turns, and the outcome is pretty damned good. This is due to the addition of the GIZMO device sold by Decware ( I may be needing another one for the 'other' speaker project). After the addition of the Giz', I found that there was just a bit more power needed than Rachel has to offer. That being said, I went the cheaper route with a D amp, and was quickly disappointed...at first. Since I blew some cash on this thing, I was determined to make it better. Surprisingly to me, the implementation of a new power supply was the answer. These D amps are just not my cup of tea, being hard and harsh to my ears. That changed considerably after replacing the switching power supply with an SLA 12v battery. It improved significantly again by adding a 6v in series and ending up with an 18v battery power supply. This is now equivelent to the original switch mode output. Difference is, that when pushed, D amps will dump power back into the power supply, causing a bit of chaos. Using a dc battery supply instead provides non of that 'discomfort' to the battery, and the sound does not suffer as a consequence. Man, I got to say that every situation has it's formula for success, and i was just lucky in this case. In the end, I will rely one my ZOB speakers to make the music that I love using Rachel. It was a good learning experience, and for me that's the fun of it all.

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25750	Re: Move over ZOB Reply #3 - 06/04/15 at 19:55:31 As usual I admire your resourcefulness and knowledge. Great way to get better sound. Happy listening!
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4krow

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #4 - 06/07/15 at 18:38:37

Thanks Lon, compliments are always accepted, heh heh. Now, as no surprise to anyone here, the madness never stops. Ok, I'll spill it, I am going to try another amp with the AN speakers. Here is the reasoning:
1 As efficient as these speakers are, these speakers do much better with more power.
2 Why try to force a D amp to do something that another design may inherently posses in the first place?
3 Since cost is a factor (or believe me, a Decware Tori would be my first choice!), I will buy used (budget is $700).

With those things in mind, I stumbled across a Red Wine Audio used amp for $650. The beaming star is that this amp is designed to for use with batteries, AND is not a D amp or the like, but uses a single 6922 tube for the input stage, and FET's for the output. Maybe a compromise that I can consider. These speakers would benefit from tubes all the way, but it's just not in the cards for this second system.
Having said all of that, I have also considered selling my Rachel for the sole reason of buying a Tori. I am convinced that the additional power will benefit my ZOB speakers. I'm not looking for more volume, but more headrooom as I am running Rachel close to her rated output.

Thouhgts anyone?

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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.

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Palomino

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #5 - 07/17/15 at 21:44:50

Used Torii or go for the Torii Jr. on special.

I like my Rachael's, but listen most to the Torii. I just appreciate the extra balls and tuning ability in the Torii. The III is a wonderfully flexible amp.

P.S. 4K, still enjoying the P300 in the cottage rig. Just enough juice for that rig. I need some better power cords, but otherwise I am pretty set there for the time being.

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Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana Studio, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio/DIY Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, Lii Audio P10 based OB speakers

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4krow Seasoned Member IMAGINE WHIRLLED PEAS Posts: 1666	Re: Move over ZOB Reply #6 - 07/27/15 at 00:01:49 Dude, I have always considered the P300 to be PS Audio's best device for power. I had my P500 bite the dust for the last time and I am going to gut, and use the basic transformer parts filter and ports to make my own conditioner. It will take awhile, since I'm not 100% about the enclosure to use. I have even considered the original one.
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4krow

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Re: DAMMIT STEVE!
Reply #7 - 10/22/15 at 18:35:27

Wow, as I experiment for using the ZOB in all kinds of different arrangements, I come back to the Rachel/ZOB. Really something when I just Can't improve on something like this. The latest experiment was using the ZOB and the 12" AN speakers in series with the Rachel, and then employing different speaker placement and acoustic 'blocks (read pillows) to accomplish a new sound. New, not always being better was 'interesting' as they say, but hardly better. Here take a look at just one of the attempts, using my grandmothers dining room chairs and pillows, along with the AN speakers flanking left and right:

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4krow

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Re: The latest thinG
Reply #8 - 06/27/16 at 23:28:18

I sold the Audio Nirvana to a church for use in their music system. Everybody won. The sound was greatly improved, and I got paid about what I had in the speakers to begin with. "Oh, so that experiment is over?" you ask. Well, kinda. Fact is that I bought some 8" Audio Nirvana drivers this week and will be experimenting with them using the ZOB cabinets...because I can, that's why. I want to hear what differences that they might have not just with my Rachel amp, but also with a Red Wine 'Signature 15' SS amp that didn't fare as well with the ZOB speakers. The previous 12" AN drivers did better with the Red Wine amp for some reason. At least, when hooked up to the Rachel I heard some limitations in the bass that was likely caused by my cabinet design. Anyway, photos to follow when I get the drivers up and running.

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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.

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4krow

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #9 - 07/09/16 at 01:34:40

Ok, so the Audio Nirvana drivers came in today, and I made haste to put them into the ZOB cabinets. Probably the easiest thing you can do because it is OB design. The specs of these drivers are in the ballpark of the FRX2, so why not? Of course, the first 2 hours I was less than impressed, yet they seem to require less break in than the 12" model did. When I first got it, it was soooo harsh that I thought that I had made a big error. After about 6 hrs. they sounded like different drivers. Well, these do not have the harshness, but lacked bass at first. Even after two hours, I am hearing great strides in the bass region, and I hope that means that they will be musical in the lower registers. That is important to me. The ALNICO magnets are said to be the ones that have the deepest bass. Will get some photos soon.

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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.

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4krow Seasoned Member IMAGINE WHIRLLED PEAS Posts: 1666	Re: Move over ZOB Reply #10 - 07/09/16 at 01:45:39 Ok, here is a shot
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4krow Seasoned Member IMAGINE WHIRLLED PEAS Posts: 1666	Re: Move over ZOB Reply #11 - 07/09/16 at 01:47:16 next
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4krow

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #12 - 07/14/16 at 03:55:28

Oh nooo boys & girls, we are not done. After having heard the AN drivers in the ZOB, I switched back to the FRX2 drivers. As I was trading them one for another, I put the AN drivers on the back of the ZOB cabinet, since there was no other place for them at that moment. Funny how ideas strike you. Hmmm says I, look at those drivers just sitting atop the port hole of the ZOB...what if?, and I hooked them up to the bass amp. NOT that the ZOB needs so much bass support, it doesn't on a lot of music, but seeing how I have these drivers just sitting there, I couldn't resist. Here is a shot with them hooked up resting on the rear of the ZOB. More to come, you just wait!

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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.

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maddog07

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #13 - 09/22/16 at 00:11:14

4krow...

I just stumbled upon your thread today while researching the FRX2 drivers.. I thought they might be field coils - but I see they are not.
Anyway... when I saw your references to the AN drivers... it got my attention, because I too have messed around with AN drivers quite a bit. I had three pair - just sold a pair to a friend. But I have a pair of 15" SCF ferrite's in OB's. And I have a pair of 12" SCF Alnico's in a 5.6 cu.ft. reflex box. The 15's in the OB's definitely need bass augmentation, which I get in spades from Hawthorne 15" Augie's (two per side) in a modified/custom Hawthorne Trio baffle. I replaced the Hawthorne coaxial unit with the 15" AN and was much, much more pleased with the sound. The Hawthorne coaxial just sounded "dead" compared to the AN.

What I have yet to do, is put the 12" Alnico in the OB and see how it sounds. This driver in the 5.6 reflex box makes all kinds of bass in its impedance peak region of about 50hz - when driven by a Torii III... I listened to these for over a year without too much "discontent" before I decided to try OB's. These drivers in a box have a lot of mid-bass weight and "meat on the bones" type juiciness to their overall sound. I like them quite a bit.
However... the 15's in the OB's have their own set of virtues as well as long as you have a way to add bass.

My next notion.. is to try the new model 15" Alnico in the AN Classic line - the ones with no whizzer. Dicks says these are now the best AN drivers. Looking at this drivers measurement specs shows these to be super smooth in the upper frequencies (unlike almost all other full-rangers). I'm kind of anxious to hear them or talk to someone who has.
I see you have what appears to be the 8" Classic AN. I'm just wondering how you like it overall?

And yes... the Torii Mk.3 has a synergy with the AN driver's that just about has to be heard to be believed... IMO and in my experience.

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4krow

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #14 - 10/06/16 at 07:19:07

Sorry for the late reply. I was unaware of this topic having a reply for me to read. AN drivers are interesting in the way that my experience with them is different in each project that I build. I have tried 3 models of the 8" drivers including the co-axial model, and still prefer the FRX2 in the ZOB. Since the ZOB design makes changing drivers so easy, temptation gets the better of me from time to time. I accidently found that using the classic ALNICO model placed directly over the port of the ZOB gave amazing results to the bass. Having said that, it is not that I found the ZOB lacking in bass to begin with when listening to most music. Rock and roll can demand a boost be added however, and this is ridiculously easy way to do just that. I just use an external electronic crossover and separate bass amp, and tha's all there is to it.
The classic 8" model is pretty good, so I imagine in the proper cabinet, it can be worth the $500 price tag. I will say that with almost every AN driver that I have purchased, I change out the binding posts for something that is higher quality, and will accept 'standard' size banana plugs. For the life of me I can't figure out why someone would make such good drivers and then stick the factory binding posts found on AN drivers. The driver quality itself is better than most, so I scratch my head about this.

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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.

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4krow Seasoned Member IMAGINE WHIRLLED PEAS Posts: 1666	Re: Move over ZOB Reply #15 - 10/27/16 at 03:36:04 What this? Wait a tick.....will complete explanation in the morning.
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4krow Seasoned Member IMAGINE WHIRLLED PEAS Posts: 1666	Re: Move over ZOB Reply #16 - 10/27/16 at 17:40:06 To cement the bass, I installed four brass inserts into the rear of the cabinets. Not before I felt that this was a good idea. Now the drivers are secure above the rear port.
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4krow

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Re: Move over ZOB
Reply #17 - 02/11/17 at 03:44:09

Update: I continue to use the AN 8" drivers as bass enhancer drivers to the ZOB. Doubt if they will ever be disconnected. I was able to tune them to the ZOB cabinets by means of a Velodyne SMS-1 bass management system. I am also experimenting with the Rachel being used as the bass amp, and a Red Wine Audio battery powered amp for the treble. The bass is even better with the Rachel driving it, but I can't say the same for the Red Wine amp. Loss of treble with this arrangement will undoubtedly have me changing it all back.... then again, a second Rachel would also work.

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