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BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way! (Read 32666 times)
Lonely Raven
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BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
01/07/15 at 20:03:52
 
So, I've been a terrible enabler for Palomino - after hearing my P10 he got a PS Audio regenerator. After hearing my DirectSteam DAC he got one of the Chord audio Qute DACs. And recently I poked and prodded him to sell one of his Rachel amps and get a Tori III that happened to pop up here in the forums at a good time.

Well, it's coming back to bite me on the speaker front! LOL

I've gone from having no speakers, to MG944 (which I still love), then tried HR-1 (which just didn't work in my room), then I bought a pair of Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 (which I like but aren't as efficient as I like), built a pair of El Camino according to Zygi's parts and guidance (which I also love), and now...FINALLY, I stumbled into a good deal on some Zu Audio Omen in ELECTRIC BLUE that I've wanted to try out for a few years now! Just fortuitous timing that I happened to check Audiogon, and the right colors is there at a reasonable price.

Granted, these aren't the higher end Zu Audio I really wanted to try, but they are a taste of what Zu Audio does- and at 97db, they should work well with both my ZMA, and my little 2 watt, 16 year old Zen amp.  :)   I plan on breaking them in (I read it takes a LOOONG time) with lots of TV and movies, and alternately the ZMA beating the snot out of them the way I like to do. Seller says he's shipping tomorrow, I should have them in about 5-6 days! I'm a very happy camper.








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deucekazoo
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #1 - 01/07/15 at 21:46:50
 
Nice, I do like the blue.
Let me know what that 2 watt little Zen does to them.
Are they the 16 ohm version?
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Ace-Tone
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #2 - 01/07/15 at 21:56:28
 
Always nice to have a new piece of equip to play with! Enjoy!
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #3 - 01/07/15 at 22:25:00
 

Well crap, I didn't even think about the impedance. With the ZMA I know I've got it covered, but the little Zen - I forget what impedance it leans towards.

Looking through the other photos I don't see it written on the input jack, so I honestly don't know.

These are Omen Mark 1-B  -  so being older, probably 16Ohm I would guess.
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beowulf
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #4 - 01/07/15 at 22:31:45
 
Those are pretty spiffy.  Can't wait to hear your impressions of them.  +1 on the impedance question ... the new ones are supposedly 12 Ohms is that correct?
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mark58
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #5 - 01/07/15 at 22:40:24
 
They are 12 ohm.  Here's the product page on Zu Audio's site.

The Union's (no longer sold) or Soul's, like I have, would have been a better match for the small Zen Amp, both at 99 dB and 8 0hms. The Drivers are the same with only their shape and internal wire differing. I use my Souls with a pair of Zen Signature Monoblocks (SE84ZSM) rated at 2 WPC and have more than enough volume...I've never turned it all the way up.  Mark. 

http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen-1b
http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul
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Palomino
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #6 - 01/07/15 at 23:33:51
 
We'll have to give them a go on Rachael to see how they sound.  Says 4 to 300 watts.
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beowulf
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #7 - 01/08/15 at 01:24:59
 
Anybody know the reason for the higher impedance?  I've never understood why the Soul Superflys and some of their other speakers are so high.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #8 - 01/08/15 at 14:47:02
 
From what I've read, the 10" drivers are made by Eminence - they are tweaked out 10" guitar amp speakers, which typically range from 8ohm to 16ohm. I think having a higher impedance also works with more amps, especially modern home theater receivers which can trip up on 4ohm speakers easily.

Typically I don't worry much about impedance, as long as it's not going to damage the amp and sounds good...impedance is such a moving target in general.

So I've put my Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 up for sale (they just aren't efficient enough - no matter how much I love those tweeters). I have my El Camino which work beautifully with the ZMA and are probably my main speakers now. And I'll have my MG944 and these Zu Audio Omen as my "high efficiency" speakers that will work with both my little Zen and my bigger ZMA.

I see myself liking more efficient speakers - they seem to "wake up" earlier on the dial (not talking about volume, but dynamics). I really just need to find efficient, dynamic, ultra-low distortion crossoverless two way speakers that have sharp imaging and wall-of-sound soundstage. I think these Omen (and maybe all Zu Audio) are a bit of a compromise because from what I've read, you give up some imaging sharpness for dynamics and wall-of-sound envelopment.

Maybe I'm asking too much of speakers, without really fleshing out my room with diffusers first....

Sorry, just thinking out-loud at this point. Lots of rattling going on in my head - and with some big projects going on at work, I won't have time to make any progress in my diffuser builds for this month...

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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #9 - 01/08/15 at 18:09:19
 
Maybe combined with the ultra detail of the DS you will still have enough image detail to move forward.

At Axpona, I thought the Zu's they had there did probably the best job of imaging in difficult circumstances.  Maybe they will tame the L room.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #10 - 01/08/15 at 18:51:57
 

Well I just got tracking information, I should have them in 3 (business) days or so. Probably right when I'm in Peoria next week. LOL
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beowulf
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #11 - 01/08/15 at 22:21:30
 
Very interesting, thanks for the explaination on that.  I read a review of Zu speakers somewhere and they used the 2 watt Super Zen with them ... since the Zu's were so efficient the little 2 watt amp drove them good.  My only concern would be that impedance over the long haul as from what I've read the Super Zen loves 4 ohm loads and don't know what the long term results would be on the amp (if any).

Does the Omen have a crossover?  I know that the Soul doesn't, the higher priced Soul Superfly/Supreme I'm not so sure.  

I've always wanted a pair of Zu Souls myself, so I'm pretty excited to hear what you think about them compared to the other speakers you have on tap!
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #12 - 01/09/15 at 06:39:44
 
Hey LR, congrats from a fellow "Blue Zu" owner! The MK I-B upgrade with the nanotech drivers/upgraded Clarity Caps should have you smiling no matter what amp you use. My Essence are at 100dB/watt, and I'm guessing yours will be the same or close to it. So if you do decide to drive them w/your ZMA - YOWZA!

Happy listening,
Randy
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #13 - 01/09/15 at 13:16:33
 

Yeah, I'm hoping the guts of the ZMA will allow me to play these speakers at a great level, without sweating the amp at all. Part of why I'm ditching my Anthony Gallo is that they sound good, but everything needs to be at 100% (DAC and AMP) to get really dynamic sound out of the speakers, and I feel like they want more. It reminds me of listening to the El Camino speakers on Palomino's Rachel amp - it sounded great, but just didn't have the dynamics.

I've been reading some reviews of speakers - mostly speakers that people put in the same category as the Zu, or just speakers mentioned in threads. One thing I see mentioned in these high efficiency speaker reviews that I don't see in a many other reviews, is when the speakers really wake up and become dynamic. I've always felt all speakers had this wake up point (I'm sure there is an audiophile term for it, but I honestly don't know what it is). I remember when I used to do a lot of car stereo installs for friends in the late '80s early '90s was when I first noticed this. As the speakers break in, that spot comes in sooner as the parts loosen up. I think the advantage of using high efficiency speakers is that this wake up point comes in so early that a Rachel can  drive these hard and still have headroom.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #14 - 01/09/15 at 15:14:32
 
LR, I'm sure the Zu Omen are going to play loud with your ZMA.

I have the original Klipsch RF-7 mains rated at 102 db. Have driven them with a 2 watt Zen for years. I'm currently driving them with a Peachtree 220se (220 watts/channel).

The problem I ran into (and perhaps you will to) is the High Efficiency Tweeters (or in my case Horns) just keep going at Higher Volume while the Woofers start to fade at some point. When this starts to happen the frequency balance is shifted to the high end.

In my case I have two 10 inch woofers in each speaker. The RF-7's do produce more Bass when driven by the 220se but it is still short of that Wall Of Sound enveloping effect you can experience at a Great Live Show. Ultimately I solved the problem by adding the HSU Mid Bass Module that has enough power and cone area to produce Tight, Quality mid bass that is almost 3 dimensional.

I'm interested to see how the Zu interact with your room. Being bottom ported I would be a little concerned they may excite the floor as my bottom firing MBM did. In my case the result at higher volume was noticeable vibration in the floor. While this was neat tactile effect the sound produced by the vibrating floor diminished overall detail and sound quality by a considerable margin.

We were discussing speaker isolation in another thread recently (isolating subs & mains from the listening room floor). If you find the Zu introduce floor vibrations due to their bottom porting or have a tendency to get a tad Boomy at higher volumes then I suggest you consider trying the Auralex isolation platform under each speaker. These are particularly effective at entirely isolating bottom firing or ported enclosures from the listening room floor.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Zu.


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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #15 - 01/09/15 at 21:12:56
 
I've been eyeballin' the Auralex isolation platform for my 21" sub I built. I happened to run into the designer in one of the many forums Im' on, and he assured me it could handle the weight of my sub if I get the Great Gramma. He seemed very confident in this, which made me keep it in mind for my mains as well. Rather than anchoring them to the floor with maple platforms, I'd consider isolating them on Auralex platforms (or DIY versions of). My only concern is the big dogs, bounding through the living room. My MG944 have a few dinks on the corners from dogs throwing bones into them, or bumping into them.

Not something I've had to worry about with the Anthony Gallo and their all metal cabinet - but I'm really concerned with my future Zu Audio.

Tracking is showing them possibly showing up tomorrow!
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Dave1210
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #16 - 01/09/15 at 22:28:25
 
LR....I am excited for you with the Zu's and very much looking forward to your feedback.

BTW...My buddy just got word from Zu today that his Omen Def's will be shipping out (so much for guaranteed by Christmas), which is exciting too!

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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #17 - 01/09/15 at 22:46:37
 

Nice! I'd like to hear what he thinks of his as well. I know mine are the bottom end of the line, but if I like them, it inspires me to move up the food chain a bit - probably to the druids.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #18 - 01/09/15 at 22:55:40
 
The Omen Def's are a MTM config (8 ohm nominal, but like you said impedance varies significantly with frequency) and are slotted just below the Druid in the lineup.  That said, the tweeter on the Omen Def's can be upgraded to the Radian 850 (same as Druid) for +$1000.  If I remember correctly, your preference is for 2 drivers vs. 3, so the Druid may be the better option.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #19 - 01/09/15 at 23:47:57
 
Yeah, I'm willing to give up a little efficiency for even better time alignment with a two driver solution.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #20 - 01/12/15 at 21:58:47
 

I had the house to myself for several hours last night, and gave the blue meanies a good run-through. Sounding better all the time; bass is filling out and there is more texture now that they are acclimating to the temperature/humidity in the house.

They are still very dry sounding, and fatiguing to listen to.

I sent an E-mail to Zu to ask for any suggestions on speeding up break-in, as I really don't know if I can handle 300-600 hours of this. If these were guitar speakers; I learned a trick from Ted Weber (RIP) of Weber speakers, using a variac and volt meter to beat speakers into submission using 60hz AC direct from the wall. But I'd hate to cook my Zu that way - they aren't exactly $60 guitar drivers.

So right now I can only handle the Zu in small doses. They certainly didn't break in as easily as the El Camino - which are spending time at their other Dad's house, and Palomino seems to be enjoying them quite a bit with the Torii.

I sold the AG 3.1, and with the Caminos elsewhere, I'm down to MG944 and the Zu - with my old Home Theater speakers as a backup.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #21 - 01/12/15 at 22:31:42
 
Hey LR,

I know how painful the MK I-B breakin is. I have an older solid state amp, and a tuner that I hook up to new speakers and just leave it on. At least it can be loosening up while I'm away/in another room and don't have to hear it embarrass itself (and annoy me).

Also, I don't know if you saw the guideline that another forum member posted about the gap height on Zu speakers, but that has also helped me balance the sound. I noticed from the picture that you have the Zu on spikes over carpet. I've attached a picture that shows a simple platform that I made for my Essence. (I elevated mine because I needed extra height for my listening position - you could probably just put a board down to experiment). If your speakers have bottom-firing woofers like mine, having carpet below eats the bass. I'm still playing with my gap height, but my bass is miles better than it was. If you can't find the info on the gap height, let me know. I printed it out, so if you need it, I can send it to you.

Don't quit on the Zus!
Randy

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Zu_base.jpg
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #22 - 01/12/15 at 22:54:57
 
Yeah, I've read about the 6mm (CD jewel case thickness) suggested gap, and mine has the finger ports on the bottom. The bass is the only thing I'm not having a problem with, it's the dryness and fatiguing sound.

I may have to set them up in a closet with a 100 WPC amp and let them play themselves out, but Zu has already written me back asking for more photos of the room so they can suggest placement/setup. As always, I'm open to their suggestions and sending photos now. We'll see what they suggest and how it helps.

I was already designing/planning a platform for my Omen (in my head), but I figured I'd wait for them to break in before I start messing with, or even worrying about the gap. I know as long as I have ample gap, I'm not holding them back, and I have more then ample now. Again, I'm not unhappy with the bass - it's everything else that's a bit rough.  :)
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #23 - 01/13/15 at 07:06:26
 
LR,

I hear you there - the tweeter was (is) the last thing to come around. Mine took forever - and even now I still think it could smooth out a little more on some "hot" recordings. Part of the problem on the Essence could be because of the ribbon tweeter, but I mostly put it down to the size of that Clarity cap. Listening to them when they first came back after the upgrade was like having your teeth drilled with no novocaine, so I can definitely empathize. I like the closet idea, though; I hadn't thought of that.

Randy
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #24 - 01/13/15 at 07:08:04
 
P.S. Let me know what Zu suggests, will you? Thanks.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #25 - 01/13/15 at 12:38:57
 
Those are not good news for me, as I also ordered Clarity Caps (big ones) with my Lore 2.0, and I presume the break-in horizon will be long and nasty. The worst is, I would not know how really the new speakers really turn out until after this process has settled, which may be a long buyer's remorse and uncertainty driven time ...   Lips Sealed
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Lonely Raven
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #26 - 01/13/15 at 13:59:51
 

TubeNube - will do. I sent them some photos of my room and description of what I listen to, where I sit, the whole thing. I've not heard back from Gerrit yet. As you know, I can be pretty verbose - especially when I'm writing stream of thought. So I'm amazed he even read through my first E-mail. LOL

FB - Dude, don't worry about it. Those are known good speakers, and it's not like they are some unusual setup or driver. When Zu came out, and even today, people question their "science". But you know me, I don't let the math guys lead me, I listen to my ears and what my gut says - and I try to not let my head overthink it.

Spending time with Steve, and these listening sessions with Palomino have taught me one major thing - I need to trust myself. Pretty much every time I let my ears and my gut tell me what I'm hearing, I've been right on in the long run. Just look at the ZMA and DirectStream. It took me seconds on each piece of gear to know there was something special there. So after I've trusted my guts, then I sit back and ponder what it means - let the brain part get some exercise figuring out the *why*, rather then let it distract me with any sort of remorse.

So beat the snot out of those speakers, and in a couple months, take a short break from them so you come back to them fresh - then make your decision. Gear is gear, you can always flip it! Smiley
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #27 - 01/13/15 at 17:02:32
 
Good points, LR. I agree. It's all part of the fun!
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #28 - 01/14/15 at 02:20:34
 
Quote:
DBC wrote:

The problem I ran into (and perhaps you will to) is the High Efficiency Tweeters (or in my case Horns) just keep going at Higher Volume while the Woofers start to fade at some point. When this starts to happen the frequency balance is shifted to the high end.


I wanted to expand on my earlier statement a bit. When a speaker comes across Dry and or Bright when being played at moderately loud levels it is natural to conclude there is something wrong with the Tweeter or Top End. Years ago I read a professional speaker review that allowed me to look at this type of situation in a different light.

This reviewer was at the speaker manufacturer auditioning a new speaker with the design engineer. The reviewer noted that the speaker sounded bright and the engineer agreed. The engineer returned with different woofers and to the reviewers puzzlement began changing out the woofers. The reviewer asked "Why are you changing out the Woofers when the problem is with the Tweeters?" The engineer responded the Tweeters are fine, the speaker lacks Mid-Bass causing a frequency imbalance that the Brain interprets as a Bright top end.

The reviewer went on to write what a remarkable change the different Woofers made. All of the perceived Bright top end was completely eliminated. By increasing the Low Frequency output a proper Frequency Balance was restored. The reviewer also noted that the speakers appeared to have more presence with less amplifier power.

When it comes to High Efficiency speakers Tweeters and or Horns can play at very high volumes. The lower frequencies on the other hand require considerably more power and cone area to maintain a proper frequency balance at moderately high volumes. So at moderate and higher listening levels the Zu's two 10" woofers are unlikely to pressurize a room adequately on the low end.

In my case my mains each have two 10" woofers. My two Mid Bass Modules have 350 Watt Amps and 12" drivers. My two Subs have 600 Watt Amps and 15" drivers. I was rocking out the other night at an average 98db listening level for about 2 hours with no fatigue. It was great. At the end I turned OFF both MBM;s and both Subs and my speakers alone did sound Bright.

So back to the Zu Omens. Their tweeters are probably capable of near live performance volumes. The 10" low frequency drivers are likely not capable of pressurizing your room to comparable live performance volumes. Just not enough speaker cone area to do that job.

I expect the Zu will break in and relax somewhat with time. Beyond that experiment with toe-in to hopefully mitigate the High End a bit. Furthermore experiment with speaker placement in an attempt to reinforce the Bass and Mid Bass regions. You might have to place these closer to your front wall than you are used to with other speakers? And of course try to maximize Bass output by experimenting with the gap height under the speaker.

Good Luck.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #29 - 01/14/15 at 02:30:03
 
That's a great post there, DBC. I intuitively understood where you were going with your short comment, but the background with the reviewer really helps fill in the details.

I got a response from Gerrit at Zu, it doesn't sound like he's getting me. He's telling me...well, maybe I'll just cut and paste.

----------------------------------------

Thanks for the info and photos.

To be honest, there isn’t an end all/say all for speaker placement, etc.

It is completely room dependent.

What I would suggest is hooking up just one speaker and move it around.. small adjustments.

Once you have things dialed simply mirror the other speaker.

If you’re able to (and if I read the message correctly) I’d move the room treatment out of the way completely.  Sometimes they can do more harm than good.

Sure certain things can work, but sometimes more often than not they end up causing the problems you’re trying to avoid.

I recall this summer we were visiting one of our good customers.  He had room treatment out the wazoo in his fully dedicated outdoor room.  The sound was nice and clean but it seriously sounded sterile and was driving me bonkers.  Couldn’t quite put our finger on it till we started playing around.

It was basically sucking all the highs, etc. out.

I’m curious if you’re running in to the same issues as some of the things you’re explaining do not sound the norm with other customers running Omen.

Also, when you say “fatiguing”… what do you mean exactly?  Is the sound being too aggressive or is it the “dry” sound becomes tiresome/fatiguing?

Let me know.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #30 - 01/14/15 at 02:36:45
 
So, I was away in Peoria for work the past two days, I just got back a bit ago - I left my DirectStream play the two days I was out. I literally just set Foobar2000 to random and powered off the ZMA.

I fired up the ZMA the second I walk in the door, totally forgetting I had 2000 albums set to to random, and Metallica just starts rolling out of the Zu Omens. I dial down the volume on the ZMA, and just let it play. It's been going for almost two hours and it's really sounding good. I've got the ZMA at 80% and the DS at 90% and according to my Rat Shack meter, I'm getting a solid 80db at my theater chair (further back listening position).

Let's turn it up a bit and see how the Zu Sound - though technically they haven't had any hours on them since Sunday.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #31 - 01/14/15 at 07:04:43
 
DBC, +1 on Raven's comment: great post.

LR, I've got my fingers crossed that you'll get as much enjoyment out of your Omens as I have been getting from my Essence, even if it takes a while. Blue Zus Rule!
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #32 - 01/14/15 at 14:07:37
 
Tough situation LR. To find a high efficiency Speaker that isn't fatiguing (good luck).

I've owned the Zu's, Klipsch an Parker95/Crusader's. Sure, they play loud with dynamic's. However, they lack so much musicality that Decware Amps have to offer.

Conversely, I hear you about the Gallo's, great tweeter and decent musicality, but not enough dynamics from them. My Maggie's, Sonus Faber an Acoustic Zen Adagio's suffered the fate of the Gallo's as well.

So, not surprising to me, you have found the El Camino's at 90-91, or 92 to 93 eff., they might be, to be the best fit with the ZMA. I have it too, in my SDA1's, which have great dynamics and the nuance, tone/timbre-texture with detail, that high efficiency Speaker's, like the above mentioned, do not deliver. But, the Zu's you have, like the ones I had (Unions), are fun just to crank up...but possess no refinement or true fidelity worthy of Decware (for me).
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #33 - 01/14/15 at 14:30:49
 
(Shhhhssshh Stone, he'll want the El Caminos back.)

Yeah Raven, give them more time.  Sure love that Blue color... Smiley

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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #34 - 01/14/15 at 15:30:10
 

LOL - Palo - you know we can build another pair, right? Hell, I still have the idea to build myself a No Holds Barred pair, which a souped up Xover, sand filled chambers, and hardwood sides and top with a painted face. And it's funny to think I was getting bored of them...that is, till we set them up at your place and I got to hear them fresh again! They do sound good with a little horsepower behind them, right?

So I listened to the Zu last night, taking measurements as I played with different volumes. If I go above 85db at the listening position, they start to get a little fatiguing. They don't sound bad by any stretch, just getting tiring. One thing that's nice about them, is that they pretty much sound good at any low volume. I can have them turned down to 45% on the DS, and they still sound pretty full range...they don't thin out like most speakers do with little power going through them.

I'll keep breaking them in - it's not like I'm on the 60 day return clock that Zu has - I could even use these in the home theater like I wanted to do with the Gallos. I actually miss the Gallos now - that was the best sound my home theater has ever had, and honestly, I hate this new surround receiver I have. Best midrange receiver my ass.

Oh crap! I'm an audio snob! LOL

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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #35 - 01/14/15 at 15:32:57
 
Yes, I posted a brief impression of them w/Torii over on the Project thread.  I experimented with toe-in and less is better.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #36 - 01/14/15 at 19:22:55
 
I've been reading the various impressions of the Blue Zu's.  I've written before in this forum about how I hated my Zu Soul's at first and beat the crap out of them with Led Zep at near concert levels....probably at least 250 to 300 hours, before they started behaving like audiophile speakers.  Mind you Zu claims they break in the drivers for 600 hours before putting them in the cabinets.  The Blue Zu's should be very similar to mine except you have a separate tweeter vs my whizzer...which makes the Blues less efficient with a higher Impedance. But the sound quality should be very similar.

Did you get a feel for how much the prior owner had used the Blues and at what volumes...they may not have been broken in much.  These Zu's really do have a Mr. Hyde and then a Dr. Jekyll personality after break in.  Unless I'd lived through it myself, I'd have a hard time believing the difference.

I, like Lon, don't like my Music playback to be too hot.  I want lots of detail but I don't want the cymbals pounding holes in my brain.  I'm listening to some studio Monk Quartet from 1964 as I type...everything is just right.  My system is relatively simple.  The 2 WPC Zen Signature Monoblocks with a Jolida 100 CD player with a pair of Sylvania Black Plate 12AX7's.  The Signatures have a pair of Amperex 7308's, the stock Russian output tubes, 50's RCA 5U4G coke bottle Rectifiers and 50's RCA OA3's.  Interconnects are the Decware Silver Reference and the power cords are nothing special.  Speaker Cables are Zu Libtec.  Oh, I also use a Running Springs Audio Haley Power Conditioner.

In regards to floor gap,  I use the spikes they sent at almost the highest you can get in the front with the back two about half of max so the souls tilt up a bit with plenty of space underneath.  They sit on carpet and provide plenty of Bass.

So when I hear or read folks who have owned Zu Speakers and describe what I first heard but got rid of them...I think to myself, if only they had been more patient with these temperamental beasts. They just needed to be broken like a young spirited horse.  Mark.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #37 - 01/14/15 at 20:17:22
 

Great writeup mark!

I'll have patients and run these through. I don't have the option of beating them into submission with Zeppelin though, at least not without locking them in a padded closet to do so. So I'll have to break them in like I did my DS and ZMA - just 25 hours a week for many weeks.

As long as I don't turn them up too loud, I think I'm up for the task. They are honestly already sounding better.

In a couple weeks, I'll swap the MG944 back in (or steal the El Caminos back from Palomino! LOL) and do a side by side and try to gauge the progress.

Thanks for the motivational words to stick with it! I don't give in easy, so this is good for me.  :)
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #38 - 01/16/15 at 00:41:41
 
LR Chris here from Decfest. If I had these speakers and the same experience you describe I would be playing 70's funk and lots of modern Jazz with plenty of bass slam and  run them with a 100wpc solid state amp. I would not run them at 101% or what I call close to bottoming the woofer coils but what I would do is 95% volume every day for at least 2-3 hours per day and then at modest levels for 5-6 more hours per day for a one week period. Then and only then can the full excursion for break in be achieved to really good effect especially with something I suspect that is very stiff suspension parts in that Zu 10 inch. Also the everyday lower levels let the fibers in the cone get loads of micro vibrations to "relax" them a bit. Those cones look like they are doped with a fairly stiff mixture. Is that true upon feeling and inspecting them? If so it makes sense that 600 hours is a figure that Zu states.
In short play the crap out of them for a long time!!!!! Wink
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #39 - 01/16/15 at 00:49:26
 

Chris, that sounds like what I was thinking (locking them in a closet with a 100wpc amp). The only non tube amp I have is having issues though, so I've not set something like this up yet. So for now, it's just playing them at moderate levels several hours a day.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #40 - 01/16/15 at 14:46:07
 
So I was asked by a couple people in PM, what my 16 year old 2 watt Zen amp sounds like on the Zu Omen.

In short, surprisingly great!

Volume is not an issue - I was hitting 86db at my seating position, which is above where the Zu start to get fatiguing (during their break in period), and still had a little headroom left over. I could easily get a comfortable listening level.

Sound wise, it was a slightly more pure/direct sound then the ZMA. It's like the slight detail improvement you get from going source to amp vs source to preamp to amp.  

I still feel the little Zen amp has amazing speed, detail, and high frequency extension that I love. But the lack of horsepower is evident in the bass. If I didn't have the ZMA in the same room, it wouldn't be so apparent, but tracks where the bass punches just had no guts. The notes were a hollow outline of the real bass. Percussion soundded amazing, vocals amazing, but really deep, punchy stuff, just felt empty.

I think it's more then just wattage there - I think it's that deep well of current that the ZMA has with those big caps. I'm betting a little 2 watt zen with more instant power on tap might bridge that gap, with high efficiency speakers.

This post is just thinking out loud here - I don't know this for sure, but that's my gut feeling.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #41 - 01/17/15 at 11:42:13
 
Interesting that the little amp still beats even a ZMA in transparency and detail ... long live Triode configurations!

Not to deviate from this thread's main topic, but I would guess the little amp would get more headroom and therefore some added dynamics from the added current reserves from larger caps/transformers, but I doubt it would get any more slam. This amp deserves 100+ dB sensitive speakers with little or no crossover.

I'd dare to suggest, a larger (and nice sounding) output beam tube configured in Triode and coupled with correspondingly larger trannies would be the best to scale up this wonder amp at still an affordable price. It would be a market hit similar to the original Super Zen ... but what do I know, right?

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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #42 - 01/17/15 at 21:58:26
 
LR, maybe Steve's putting bigger caps in the new Triode Mono-blocks... .

Oh, and you don't need super high eff Speaks....just the best of the best IC's an Speaker Kables. At least 91 - 92 Speaks are needed though. When I ABA my Kimber Select to lesser......Select wins. If it did not...all would be sold quite awhile ago.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #43 - 01/18/15 at 19:15:41
 
stone_of_tone wrote on 01/17/15 at 21:58:26:
LR, maybe Steve's putting bigger caps in the new Triode Mono-blocks... .

Oh, and you don't need super high eff Speaks....just the best of the best IC's an Speaker Kables. .

I absolutely agree that the best cabling yields great results with these amps. They just reveal more and more of the good stuff the better the cabling. I wish I could spend a few more grand on cabling. . .well I probably will in time. At this point that is where I would put my audio money.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #44 - 02/09/15 at 13:49:56
 
Quote:
LR wrote:

So I was asked by a couple people in PM, what my 16 year old 2 watt Zen amp sounds like on the Zu Omen.

In short, surprisingly great!

Volume is not an issue - I was hitting 86db at my seating position, which is above where the Zu start to get fatiguing (during their break in period), and still had a little headroom left over. I could easily get a comfortable listening level.

Sound wise, it was a slightly more pure/direct sound then the ZMA. It's like the slight detail improvement you get from going source to amp vs source to preamp to amp.  

I still feel the little Zen amp has amazing speed, detail, and high frequency extension that I love. But the lack of horsepower is evident in the bass. If I didn't have the ZMA in the same room, it wouldn't be so apparent, but tracks where the bass punches just had no guts. The notes were a hollow outline of the real bass. Percussion soundded amazing, vocals amazing, but really deep, punchy stuff, just felt empty.


For prospective Zen owners, I have a 13 year old Zen and a more recent Super Zen. Back in December I purchased a Peachtree 220se (220 watts per channel) and upgraded my Oppo player to the current BDP-105D.

Now that I have a lot of play on both units I did a head to head this past weekend between the Peachtree & Super Zen. No preamp when using the Super Zen and I had my Hsu Mid Bass Module active with both amps reinforcing the 50hz to 150hz Mid Bass range.

Other than maximum output volume potential it was a Dead Heat in every other department, including low end Weight & Slam. I stated otherwise in an earlier post (my apologies to Steve Deckert) and will explain where I went wrong back on the other thread.

LR's observations are spot on. IMO reinforcing the Mid Bass range evens the playing field for the Super Zen. In fact Super Zen with Mid Bass reinforcement is notably more satisfying than the Peachtree without Mid Bass reinforcement.

Although the Super Zen would not go as Loud, it was still plenty loud on the Klipsch RF-7 for my rock & roll taste. I was playing AC/DC Rock Or Bust with Zen volume knob at 12 O'clock and it was Rockin! The Super Zen output is really impressive when doing an A/B comparison against 250 watts.

Quote:
On another site Wind Chaser recently wrote:

Hey DBC,

First, a very big thank you for the detailed write up on the MBM on the Decware site. I took delivery of one last November, and  WOW!  It is everything you said it was. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'll tell you more  later in a private message when I'm at a real computer.


I have a pair of single driver Omega Alnico Monitors on order (93db) These are not as efficient compared to my Klipsch at 102db. Others have reported these sound wonderful with the Super Zen and play louder than the 93db rating would lead you to believe. After I have had some time with these I will be sure to report.

LR, thanks for all the feedback on your Zu's.
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Re: BAM! Blue Beauties are on the way!
Reply #45 - 02/09/15 at 14:41:23
 
I'm still working the Zu in a bit. I've not had any time for listening the past three weeks with projects going on. I'm helping a friend build a home theater, and we're getting some work done in our basement (adding a door to block it off from the rest of the house) so I can do some demolition and maybe rebuild and get some space back.
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