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When is good too good? (Read 6194 times)
beowulf
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When is good too good?
11/03/14 at 02:04:49
 
OK, so tonight I was in the mood for some Stones and I threw on a DSD rip of "Exile On Main Street", the song was "Sweet Black Angel".  I've heard this album a bunch (as most probably have or at least songs from it) and all of a sudden I heard Richards' and Taylor's thumbs moving up and down the frets of their guitars and the picks strumming the strings.  At first I was like "wow" that is some serious resolution I got going on here and went and got my son to see if he could here the same thing and he said yea.  

But then all of a sudden I start analyzing everything on this record, I felt I could hear where the players were, Jagger's breath, etc. which has been said to be (by Mick Jagger's own record) one of the worst Stones albums as far as mixes go and besides that fact I don't even hear the music anymore as I am paying attention to the actual nuances rather than the music.

I know a lot of you guys are way advanced than me and I have barely tipped the iceberg with things such as power and isolation devices, etc. but do you ever feel yourself having such good synergy that you start to over analyze stuff?

Here's my pretty modest system:

Amp = Decware Taboo MKII
Speakers = Omega RS7
Preamp = McIntosh C220
DAC = McIntosh D100
TT = Rega RP6 with exact cart
Cables = Speaker = Zenwave, Interconnect = Decware and Zenwave, Digital and Wireworld
PC = AsusVivoPC with Windows 8.1 and JRiver MC 20.
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Lon
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Re: When is good too good?
Reply #1 - 11/03/14 at 02:29:15
 
Yes, that does happen to me, and it can be fun. Usually happens when I've been enjoying some new equipment or accessory or tweak. It can be fun, but it can take you out of the music enjoyment. Oten I reach a plateau of sound where the equipment moves away and the music dominates. That is when I really love this hobby. Before too long though something I read here or in print or on the old innerweb somewhere gets me back in that analytical mode. . . .

Ideally I'll stay out of that mode, but it's useful too for guaging where we are in the hunt and the journey.

By the way. . . Mick and Keith's THUMBS moving up and down the frets? I doubt that's what you are hearing. Fingers, probably. Smiley

I love Exile on Main Street. It's the only Stones cd I own. (Have a few other lps, but for the most part I have only listened to Exile the last few decades, don't need other Stone recordings).
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HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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will
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Re: When is good too good?
Reply #2 - 11/03/14 at 05:48:57
 
Sounds like a very nice system to me Beowulf. I think the thing is balance. If something sticks out, it can be something good that is unfamiliar, and needs getting used to....or it can be something that is maybe good and perhaps a little dominant.... Might need to balance the whole with something else... like warmth, fine detail, bass body or resolution... or whatever.

If I find the analytical ahead of the pleasure, I trust that some perceptions are pointing me somewhere. I may not know the answer, or how to explain the problem, but by following my preferences as I experiment, I always seem to figure it out and get the enjoyment and amazement back to the top...most often, ending up having taken it to a higher level from solving some challenge.

Putting my PureMusic player in a RAMdisk made my setup "too good." Too clear and dynamic based upon how it was set up. Liking the good parts of this change, I started working to "find" the new sound. First I played with isolation, damping and feet...Then a little IC change...Then put in some warmer power tubes (the Valve Art 350Bs had one go bad, so switched to the richer Genalex KT66)...Then a warmer, copper receptacle power strip for computer, DAC, USB power, Shunyata Defender, and some other little things, over a very clean tweaked out Brickwall (this was the big one). And finally some EQ adjustments.

Wow...things are very beautiful tonight. The decreased noise and subtle distortions from the computer, and associated increases in black, clarity, and dynamics...they all seem to be a part of the amazement and beauty now. Gorgeous music!

Won't know for sure until I play a lot more recordings, and may need some fine tuning, but wow! With any luck, the "too good" has turned to better than ever. Listening to the last record, all I could hear was great music. So, for me anyway, I think the analytical is usually awakened by something being a little out of balance.

Course...when you have hundreds of recordings of various recording qualities and characters...and maybe a new cable or piece of gear here or there....seeking the balance can be sort of perpetual! I love it!

Wink
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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Lonely Raven
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Re: When is good too good?
Reply #3 - 11/04/14 at 02:02:55
 
Quote:
Putting my PureMusic player in a RAMdisk made my setup "too good." Too clear and dynamic based upon how it was set up.


That's funny, almost the flip of what I just ran into. The new DS firmware felt "too much" of something for me. I wrote up this long post about it, but never posted it. I was honestly like 3 pages worth of writing and I wasn't finished!...I think I realized I was writing for myself - you guys don't need to put up with all the rambling in my head.

Anywho, as I said, mine was the opposite, the DS Firmware seemed too much to me - it was detailed and accurate and everything, but I wasn't wholly liking it. Then I loaded up that Ram-Disk component for Foobar, and suddenly the system was elevated to levels I have trouble describing.

I'm pretty happy now, and I've got those tubes coming in for the ZMA - not that I need them, but it's fun to experiment. Right now, I'm enjoying the system so much, that I have been focusing on tracking down new music to listen to. That's a good place to be.  :)
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beowulf
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Re: When is good too good?
Reply #4 - 11/09/14 at 23:43:42
 
@ Lon, thanks for posting that ... after a bit I found myself back I the music.  It caught me off guard though.  I have always heard that the SACD versions of the Stones' albums were mastered quite excellent and I have just acquired a new DAC.  Before it was the Rega DAC which makes everything warm and fuzzy ... it has PRat, but not the best resolution, but now I have the McIntosh D100 which has some really great inner detail, so I had a combination of things going on ... first my friend ripped a few Stones SACDs to DSD for me and then combined with the new Mac DAC things got a little "too" good for a few moments and yes FINGERS not THUMBS doh' Grin

@ Will, yes so you were right as well, although the improvements to the gear were substantial, the mastering of these discs are very good.  Funny that I was considering a brick wall, and then Dave (from Dave's Cables aka Zenwave) happens to be taking SurgeX SEQ's (which use brick-wall tech) and hot-rodding them into very audiophile surge/conditioners.  He will be having a tour pretty soon so I can't wait to get my hands on one of those.

@ LR, the RAMdisk is only going OK for me ... I think I may need more RAM to bring out the best in this, but will be experimenting with this more down the road.
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will
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Re: When is good too good?
Reply #5 - 11/10/14 at 05:59:45
 
I actually have my DIY modded Brickwall back in. Funny, this Ramdisk has taken things to new levels and in doing so, narrowed a long developed window of balance. I noticed that the improvements from the copper strip were not really improvements, but dumbing down the sound. The modded brickwall with Shunyata Defender is very transparent and that should work.

I had some Black Discus on the hot speaker outs. I pulled them just for kicks, and it really made a difference...the slightly intense dynamics, and hardish mids on lesser recordings sort of disappeared, and with the Brickwall in. Then I put the discus on the power cable feeding the PSA P5...nice! Only thing I can figure is that on the speaker outs, the discus were upsetting the balance by how they pulled noise and the RAMdisk clarity showed it. Jeez...I am now rolling power devices@#$%^&*

When I increased my RAM from 4 to 8GB, I did not really notice it, but memory play in PureMusic worked fine with 4 and I do listen only to 16/44.1 files. The RAMdisk worked similarly with my DAC as the shift with a clean USB power supply. Both notable. I can't say if the 8GB made this possible or not, but based on the RAMdisk not doing much with your D100, I wonder if either the DAC is filtering the input, or if it is lack of RAM...I wonder if a RAMdisk is like an app, where it will use virtual memory from the drive if there is not enough physical memory, or if it causes the player app to use virtual memory, defeating the purpose??? I sure hear the RAMdisk here.

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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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Lonely Raven
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Re: When is good too good?
Reply #6 - 11/10/14 at 15:38:38
 
Quote:
@ LR, the RAMdisk is only going OK for me ... I think I may need more RAM to bring out the best in this, but will be experimenting with this more down the road.


Quote:
When I increased my RAM from 4 to 8GB, I did not really notice it, but memory play in PureMusic worked fine with 4 and I do listen only to 16/44.1 files. The RAMdisk worked similarly with my DAC as the shift with a clean USB power supply. Both notable. I can't say if the 8GB made this possible or not, but based on the RAMdisk not doing much with your D100, I wonder if either the DAC is filtering the input, or if it is lack of RAM...I wonder if a RAMdisk is like an app, where it will use virtual memory from the drive if there is not enough physical memory, or if it causes the player app to use virtual memory, defeating the purpose??? I sure hear the RAMdisk here.



I tried pressing Ted Smith to use his magic MIT EE powers on why the RAM-Disk (in Foobar2000 in my case) works so well for me, and why it may or may not for others. It was tough to follow, but the short version is "everyone's system is different, and it happens to work well for yours".  Which doesn't really explain *why* it works well - that discussion got a bit obfuscated (I'm starting to wonder if this was intentional), and my take on it is:  "I have lots of random theories, I don't have time to really care, and I really have no idea what it might be". Those aren't actual quotes, just what I feel was the message.

Also, for those using Foobar2000, the Ram-Disk is a 32bit Application, and tops off at 4GB of RAM. I've asked the created if I could entice him to make a 64bit version that can address more memory, but none of my E-mails or PMs have been responded to.
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Palomino
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Re: When is good too good?
Reply #7 - 11/12/14 at 00:55:49
 
The latest "magic" for me has come from turning the P300 down to 115 volts (I read it here so I tried it - no idea why it works --> the ramdisk thing --> the 274B rectifier.

Its not so much a detail thing, its more of a soundstage thing.  Just wildly good imaging and musicality.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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