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Audirvana Settings (Read 55700 times)
Dave1210
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Audirvana Settings
08/15/14 at 02:48:41
 
We are starting this thread to share software settings for our computer audio software.  Based on feedback from the broader community, I think it's fair to say that both the software and settings can significantly impact sound quality.  

This thread is specific to those who use Audirvana or are looking for guidance on using Audirvana.  Please post a little bit of information about your computer when sharing your software settings (for relevancy, correlations, etc).

Cheers,
David
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #1 - 08/15/14 at 02:55:36
 
Current Computer

MacBook Pro
2.4 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
8 GB RAM
SSD Hard Drive (OWC)
Generic USB Cable
Audirvana

I listen w/battery vs. plugged in.
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #2 - 08/15/14 at 03:01:39
 
Screen Shot 1
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #3 - 08/15/14 at 03:04:31
 
Screen Shot 2
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #4 - 08/15/14 at 03:07:23
 
Screen Shot 3
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will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #5 - 08/15/14 at 03:52:03
 
Hey Dave,

If you want to get the important settings Palomino is using, we need the Audio Filter and Audio volume tabs too.

Other than what you already have, I think the main differences soundwise are on the Advanced preferences of the Audio Filter tab. With everything set where "best" sets it, drop the pre-ringing to 80. Also "Invert Globally" is checked on the bottom, and not the other. These are things I did not play with before and they really made a difference for me.

On the Audio Volume tab: MBIT+, Ultra, Normal with Silence Harmonics checked are his settings.

Finally, on the Audio Device tab, he is using Mode 2 on the Integer and about 4K memory, but if you have plenty of memory, I can't feature why your greater setting would do anything untoward.

I need to play more, but I like these settings better than anything I was able to find before, though I am using Mode 1 just now on Integer mode.

EDIT: Palomino is using forced upsampling also, set to maximum.
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will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #6 - 08/15/14 at 04:27:10
 
Dave,

I just noticed your request for PureMusic settings. I will look at them tomorrow and let you know.
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #7 - 08/15/14 at 12:08:47
 
I have DAC only checked for volume.  About to look at the other advanced settings.
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #8 - 08/15/14 at 12:17:36
 
Ok...so here are my new settings...I didn't even see the Advanced Tab under filters prior to this exercise : )
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #9 - 08/15/14 at 12:18:43
 
Here is the audio filter tab...let me know if there are other things I should modify/try.
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will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #10 - 08/15/14 at 21:53:10
 
Thanks for grabbing the pics. It is a good reference. I don't see the Audio volume tab with MBIT+. Otherwise, it seems good for the settings Palomino found.

What do you think? Has this helped your computer playback?

You probably already knew this, but I finally figured out that if I click the stop button on Audirvana, it will allow preference changes.

I am tending to Mode 1 on the Integer for the Tranquility, perhaps since it already does texture and space so musically ...so I think I like the more dynamic and articulate sound of 1, which I mention first because this effects the rest.

I have discovered a few things sound-wise (I think). On the Audio Filters tab, the steepness effects the intensity of signal "push," dynamics and body. And relative to that, also has some impact on ringing. I am finding 150 too in-the-face and for many recordings, too dense in my system/room. The MKIV is really fast, dynamic and powerful though. 139 seemed a pretty good next step, until I found an EST piano track with pretty intense ringing, especially on dynamic high notes.

So I went to work and found that lowering the steepness more, now at 135, helped the ringing. Also I ended up with 76 for pre-ringing. This may be my NOS DAC, I don't know. But the sound is good here, more open and fresher sounding....less forward...a less produced sound...more like music. With these settings it first sounded a little lean, but now that I listen more, I prefer the more live sound, still hearing plenty of Audirvana's efforts for warmth.

They are definitely trying to work the "analog" angle with warm and exceptional detail with this program, creating potential beauty and potential trouble. I just think it is really tricky to sway much from "neutral." But luckily there are enough settings here to tune to taste within that and I am really starting to like the program.

Anyway, whatever way suits the system/tastes, the steepness seems an easy control to adjust for more, or less push, darkness, and density.

I also found that I liked having Minimize Peaks checked along with Silence Harmonics. Tightened things up especially in dense music with a lot of bass.


PureMusic:

It seems it has gotten really easy. The new version no longer has Shaping options like those on the Filter page of Audirvana. I was sorry to find this, but glad I like the sound, so am not complaining. I wish it were still there for fine-tuning though.

The preferences seem pretty self explanatory now, but the more important sound prefs on mine are set like this:

Signal Modifiers:
Noise Shaped  checked
32 bit
Stereo Channels dithered separately checked

If you want to adjust app-wide volume going to the DAC, use the Multi-Channel tab.

Music Server Advanced:
Max Fidelity

Invert polarity when tagged checked

Memory Play: All three checked

Audio Setup (button at the bottom of the preference page):
Select DAC
Enable Exclusive Hog Mode checked

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #11 - 08/16/14 at 09:14:18
 
I'm trying Server 2012 with Foobar on a spare laptop I have. I swear I have more PRaT, but it's also 3:15am and I can't really crank it to listen like I normally do. So far so good though.

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will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #12 - 08/17/14 at 16:17:27
 
I am back to Pure Music. I did not do an official A/B, but was pleasantly relieved to hear how PM does it after several days of Audirvana. For the most part it just seems more natural to me... more smooth and liquid, more spacious, more accurate timbre, more nuance.....Here anyway, I get more of a real instrument feel.
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #13 - 08/18/14 at 01:49:28
 
Will...I didn't have time to evaluate the new Audirvana settings (in a critical fashion) or download and listen to Pure Music this weekend.  Hopefully I will be able to get to it this week.
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Palomino
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #14 - 08/18/14 at 14:10:11
 
With the Chord QuteHD, I am no longer using upsampling.  Also, I am back to integer mode 1.  I have also upped the memory use a bit in hopes of helping with DSD files.  They still glitch occasionally.

For kicks, I switched to BitPerfect the other day.  Paul at PS Audio uses this so I thought I would give it a try.  For $10 you can't go too wrong.  Anyway, I did some A/B and got some better detail on a couple of songs so now I am back to experimenting with both programs.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #15 - 08/18/14 at 18:04:27
 

Yeah, but Paul is also re-evaluating his Mac setup - he realized it doesn't sound as good as the PWT, and I think he sent it out to be worked on. I'm curious what he comes up with.
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will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #16 - 08/18/14 at 19:17:31
 
After using the Global Invert Polarity setting in Audirvana, I am exploring it in PureMusic now. Interesting....though no conclusions yet. There is an Invert button on the PureMusic bar, or a pulldown in: Preferences, Audio Setup, Polarity (pull down) if you want to try it.
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Palomino
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #17 - 08/21/14 at 14:30:14
 
While not Audirvana+ settings specific, you guys might want to check out this thread.  It talks about some things you can do to make the mini sound better and offers various alternatives to a SSD and/or a LPSU.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/attention-current-mac-mini-us...

I'm not all the way through it, but I already got a lift when I switched USB ports.  Seems they have different paths and you want the shortest one.  I will probably try some of the RAM disk stuff as well.
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will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #18 - 08/22/14 at 05:33:50
 
Thanks for the link Palomino.

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Palomino
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #19 - 09/10/14 at 15:57:13
 
Hey, I posted this link before.  It has a lot of good ideas.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/attention-current-mac-mini-us...

I finally got around to trying this Applscript Ap to run Audirvana off of a Ram disk and also run your music from a Ram disk as well.  I felt I got a more analogue or smoother sound but still great detail with it.  Good for critical listening sessions when you don't need the iTunes interface.

You can set it to run at startup (go down a couple posts from the code post by Jud).  This takes some of the hassle out of it.

Worth a try...

You have to rename your hard drive so it knows where to go to get the application and change the name on Audirvana Plus if you have it named something else.


set MusicSizeInMB to 1536 set AppSizeInMB to 512


set NumSectors to ((2 * 1024 * MusicSizeInMB))
set DeviceName to do shell script "hdid -nomount ram://" & NumSectors
do shell script "diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ RAMDiskMusic " & DeviceName


set NumSectors to ((2 * 1024 * AppSizeInMB))
set DeviceName to do shell script "hdid -nomount ram://" & NumSectors
do shell script "diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ RAMDiskApp " & DeviceName


tell application "Finder"
   duplicate file "Macintosh HD:Applications:Audirvana Plus" to "RAMDiskApp:"
end tell

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #20 - 09/10/14 at 16:47:26
 

Oh, on a similar thread, I have that laptop with Server 2012 for you, and I've installed Audiophile Optimizer. I just need to copy my foobar install, and move some music to it for you to play with.  I'll see if I can drop it off sometime this week. See how this setup sounds compared to your Mac.
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Palomino
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Reply #21 - 09/10/14 at 16:57:35
 
Thanks. That would be a good test.
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #22 - 09/11/14 at 13:01:59
 
Paul is reporting some substantial changes to the MacMini power supply to get it sounding closer to the PWT.

http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/mac-mini-server/

Pal/Will...you guys still using the switching power supply?  If so, have you thought about a power supply upgrade?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #23 - 09/11/14 at 13:07:27
 

That's very much in line with the improvement I saw upgrading my Lenovo PC power supply.
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Dave1210
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Reply #24 - 09/11/14 at 13:13:55
 
When I use a computer source I have been using a laptop, running on battery, so I haven't been worried about power supply.  

My buddy is planning to create a music server on a MacMini in the near future and I wonder if the MacMini with standard power supply will sound as good as his laptop running on battery.  Have any of you done this comparison?
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Palomino
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Reply #25 - 09/11/14 at 20:51:35
 
I'd love to know that Dave.   If I get some time I will look around Computer Audiophile and see what I can find.

You can probably pick up a used Mac laptop cheaper than the various upgrades to the mini will cost you.

I see in Paul from PS Audio's last post he lists what all he had done to his mini.   He had to spend over a grand on those.

P.S. running off Ramdisk per that script I posted earlier really has some sonic benefits.
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Dave1210
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #26 - 09/11/14 at 21:00:22
 
I think my buddy is planning to get the Mini soon, so we will do some comparisons.  PWT vs. MacMini vs. MacBook Pro.  Should be interesting.

Upgrading the power supply on the MacMini could cost 2X the price of the computer (ouch) which puts you into PWT price territory (assuming you could get a good deal on one).  That said, spinning discs isn't everyone's cup of tea.  The new CAPS v3 Zuma with a linear power supply would be about $2000 too.

I am looking forward to your comparison of MacMini vs. LR's 2012 Server computer in the meantime.
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Palomino
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Reply #27 - 09/11/14 at 21:11:24
 
yes, me too  :)
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will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #28 - 09/15/14 at 20:18:48
 
Dave said: Quote:
Pal/Will...you guys still using the switching power supply?  If so, have you thought about a power supply upgrade?


Sorry Dave, I am not getting notifications to this thread for some reason.

I have considered a power supply, but have found my sound to be quite satisfying so have avoided the hassle. I don't perceive digital glare, leanness, weak or mushy bass... or anything else, though other system/room adjustments have resolved all that too. It would surely seem I would like the power supply change though. Some day maybe I will try.

I look forward to your comparisons. I compared a Macbook pro on battery, and my first 2009 or early 2010 Mini (this one had a big power "brick"), and liked the Mini better then, but I did not have either adjusted for optimal music...using only iTunes and Audio Midi adjustments, a Kimber USB cable that was better than the stock stuff, and nothing further. Too long ago to say why I liked the Mini better....

Now I have a newer mid-2010 Mini (with cast aluminum box and the internal supply); PureMusic; 8 gigs of RAM; all the settings tweaked to limit computer use; a very quiet external FW drive (different buss than the USB for DAC); I use the USB port that sounds best for the DAC; a linear USB power supply, cutting out current (and noise) from the computer to the DAC; a very good dbaudiolabs USB cable for my DAC designed to bridge a Mini with the Tranquility; an Alan Maher high frequency noise transducer/absorber across the computer cable connections; a Shunyata Defender plugged into the Audio Brickwall with the DAC and Mini (they don't sound as good to me into the PSA P5); EMF/RFI absorbing paper on the Mini top, under and over the DAC and on the USB power supply bricks; and a big deal here in the subtle sense that these additions work...vibration reducing feet under the Mini, a nice flat rock on top for weight that works with the feet for a more solid and smooth sound, then three double grungebuster pieces and the FW drive on top, and more grunge buster pieces with another flat rock on top for the drive.

I am probably forgetting some things, but all of these have to do with limiting and mitigating noise in the signal, and each could be heard as I added them little by little. Cumulatively, it seems really good. My sound is big, has very good complex detail, is atmospheric, spacious, smooth, dynamic, lovely bass....its good. Enough so, I don't crave messing with pulling the power supply.

I just did some foot rolling under the CSP3, the Tranquility, and the Mini, and ended up back where I started, isocups under the CSP3, hardwood feet that go to fine points from partsconnexion under the Tranquility, and 3 BDR MK3 EDIT: (Sorry MK4 not MK3) Cones from Music Direct with grungebuster pieces under them, and the small ends settled between the plastic ring and the metal under the Mini.

Not that this is the best setup elsewhere, but it was interesting how varied a sound I got just by moving these feet around, turning them upside down etc. In the mix was also another 3 isopcups that I keep going back and forth under the Tranquility with the wood points. Also this is all on top of shelf and cabinet vibration reductions.

This particular setting is very revealing, with tight bass, and just right for me in smoothness and warmth. I was able to get notably smoother, warmer and bassier as well as overly bright playing around.

All of the above matters, but from this, at least here, feet can be a big deal. But then without everything else being adressed, none of the changes would be as notable, the cumulative increase in resolution being the result of each of the individual adjustments making the whole better....like not being able to hear cable changes in a system if something else is holding back the resolution.
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Palomino
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #29 - 09/18/14 at 15:36:52
 
By the way, I inquired about the costs/process of upgrading the mini by the firm Paul at PS Audio used:

You can do just a dongle that allows you to use any external LPSU you want:

That will cost $500 for the mod when you send us your Mini.  I can make a dongle for you for $175 If you want to DIY.

Or you can do a combination dongle/filter that is supposed to get rid of the noise inside the mini:

Your cost is $600 installed and $375 for DIY internal filter.

And then you can add the power supply in two flavors:

MSRP for the PS-12m is $1795. I can get you into one for $1450. We also have another PS that we call the Micro 512 that is $895 MSRP and it is a cheaper, smaller, portable version of the PS-12m.

That's a lot to invest in a little box that costs around $500.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #30 - 09/18/14 at 16:42:43
 
Makes my PC solution sound downright paper cup cheap by comparison!

If I can find more about how to build that adapter/filter, I'm betting we could build one.

See if anyone has a DIY adapter guide. We build the adapater, then mod an industrial L-PSU. I'm betting we could do the whole thing for under $300.

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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #31 - 10/28/14 at 19:06:34
 
I mentioned this script for running Audirvana off ram disk before but it didn't generate any interest.  I'd love it if someone would give it a try (Will/Dave).

Copying the songs to the ram disk AND then into the Audirvana playlist was too much hassle for casual listening.  Now I just use it only to run Audirvana off of ram disk using iTunes integrated mode.  Using ram disk for Audirvana is where I think most of the lift comes from anyway.

Here is the script for just running Audivana on ramdisk.  You have to set the path in the last statement for where you have Audirvana located and if you have it named something besides Audirvana Plus (some people name it so they can keep old versions).  I just created this and have it in my apps tray and run it on startup.

set AppSizeInMB to 512


set NumSectors to ((2 * 1024 * AppSizeInMB))
set DeviceName to do shell script "hdid -nomount ram://" & NumSectors
do shell script "diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ RAMDiskApp " & DeviceName


tell application "Finder"
   duplicate file "Macintosh HD:Applications:Audirvana Plus" to "RAMDiskApp:"
end tell
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #32 - 10/28/14 at 20:51:42
 
Thanks Palomino. I have given up on Audirvana for about the tenth time. I don't know what's up. I keep trying with so many liking it, but I guess I am a PureMusic guy....to me, less affected...more honest and real. Also since EQ is a big fine-tuning device for me, the Pure AU interface is more complete and easier for me.

I don't really get this either, but my experience with digital has not been clouded by "digital" sound as it has for many. Lucky beginnings????....definitely in part the Tranquility with a linear USB power supply, but also, I have had super clean power for years in a highly optimized system/room (probably why PSAudio regeneration was colored for me and so hard to tune to tastes). It includes good cables, but does EMF/RFI cleaning at cable ends, and in the wall circuits, all before any receptacles or boxes for conditioning....Also, really exploring feet and other vibration handling to tastes, helping it all. With a good selection of all cables I can then optimize cable placement to each piece of gear for the whole system sound. Finally, I think this all may make it so that relatively straight forward Mini/DAC/drive tweaks and setups work so well here without "digital" artifacts. Just weight and the "just right" feet on the Mini is a big deal (in the subtle areas we want refined) for solidifying and smoothing the sound. Likewise on the DAC.

But I bet I can do this script with PureMusic and would like to check it out based on your experience. Do you think I can just plug in its app name? Also, I have not worked in terminal much, the last time a few years ago putting in a few scripts recommended by Eric Hider (Tranquility DAC) for optimization.

...I don't know what and where the app tray is... Is it Login Items in Accounts? And how do you put a script in it?

Thanks!

Will
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #33 - 10/28/14 at 20:59:11
 
Now you have me thinking I should try Pure...

Yes, it would work with any ap so long as the ramdisk is big enough for it.

I'm not using the right term re "tray."  It's the toolbar that shows your aps.  I have mine positioned on the bottom of the screen.   I have read where this script can run upon startup, but haven't messed with that yet.

I use weight on the mini but really need to up my game on isolation (on everything).
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #34 - 10/28/14 at 21:22:14
 
Palomino - when are we going to run a head to head, my computer against your...MAC?  I finally think mine can give it a good run for it's money, and I think the buffer on Foobar2000 is pretty much a RAM disk on the fly considering how big I can make it.

Edit : a quick google, and it seems there is a Ramdisk component for Foobar. I'll see if I can get it working this week and see how well it works.

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_ramdisk

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Reply #35 - 10/28/14 at 21:26:57
 
Yeah, I keep thinking about it but I am so jammed up with work and other stuff on the weekend that I haven't committed any time to it.  I do think it would be a good comparison.  I am kind of a Mac guy (since 1984) but its all about the music!
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #36 - 10/28/14 at 23:20:50
 
Thanks Palomino, that sounds like "the Doc." I will explore.

Who knows on Pure. No question for me, but I have been tuning with it as a given in the system a long time. I do find it quite transparent though. I like it straight up and dithered, but with the narrow Qs I boost to compensate for some room weakness at about the 90, 130 and 145 (high energy places), I reduce the digital volume to avoid clipping. I dither the volume and the EQ at 32 bits, so am modding the signal happily with Pure, but again, I have been using dithering a long time, what I am used to.

I just checked it with volume and EQ bypassed, and using the MKIVs bass cut switch, and it sounds better in some ways and not in others, but awesome none-the-less. It is just different with and without, but the dithering, and some method of activating it, is another sound option in Pure. I think you can set the prefs for dithered volume and just change the volume (multichannel tab) a few tenths of a Db if you want to check it out.

At the level of revelation you are getting, I would be surprised if feet did not suit you for refinement. I use something under literally everything, and as with cables, it has been good to have some variety for tuning. It can be subtle, but with it all cumulative, can't go far wrong, especially with stuff like Herbie's having a good return policy.

Though the Rachel, and all the black tops are better at vibration cancelling, I still like Isocups under the amp and they can be tuned with different balls, which is nice. They will sound different in different locations also. Steve H is easy with email questions and knowledgeable. I use a lot of his stuff in different places, but BDR cones http://www.musicdirect.com/p-383-bdr-cones.aspx remain my fav under the Mini, three MKIVs with the cone tip fitting between the metal and plastic ring, with some cut up pieces of Herbie's grungebuster material under the wide part of the cones (just a little icing I added recently). It is also easy to use pieces under shelves, as well as drives and other "incidental" things. So I just bought a sheet of the thick stuff rather than dots.

Thanks for reminding us of the RAMdisk.

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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #37 - 10/29/14 at 01:19:57
 
I got the RAMdisk after getting into a few funny spots. Starting in Terminal was my mistake...it kept not liking the syntax or something. So I looked elsewhere.

I found AppleScript Editor in the Utilities folder, and it was good with the wording, but would not run. I had changed Audirvana Plus to Pure Music, still no luck. Finally figured it out, I had named my Hard Drive "Music." Put that in the place of Macintosh HD, and now the script could find Applications, and it ran successfully in AppleScript Editor.

What a slick little setup, making a RAMdisk on the desktop. I was easily able to test it by quitting PureMusic/iTunes, then ejecting the disk, then restart Pure without the RAMdisk, and see...

I had saved the script file to the desktop, so then I quit the music player again, opened the script (and thus AppleScript Editor), ran it, and the RAMdisk shows up again. Awesome. Thanks Palomino.

It is pretty subtle in some ways here, but notable enough in others. At first I could not tell which I liked better for sure, but could discern differences. There is an increase in clarity that conveys everywhere, including body. It is a bit smoother too. The soundstage has more definition, each player a little more in focus...so increased inner detail also. I think the cleaner, more focused presentation gives a little more sense of dynamics too.

First impressions? So far, I like it! Thanks.
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #38 - 10/29/14 at 01:28:47
 
Further back in the post I have the full script if you want to try putting music on ram disk as well.  I'm not sure how that works with pure but I think pure plays independent of iTunes so it might work.

I am thinking about isolation. I am familiar with herbies.  Raven turned me on to tube dampers which I feel give that little extra definition.

Listening now.  I can't hardly complain about what I am hearing but isolation is something else to explore.
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #39 - 10/29/14 at 01:47:39
 
Yes it is funny. I always love the sound, and think, "how can it really get better?" But it does.

I find on my MKIV, that tube dampers are notably less necessary than with the MKIII. I think that black top is really good. But I have had isocups under both from the getgo, so have not compared without feet and with tube dampers. Conceptually though, since the isocups effect the whole amp, not just the tubes, it would seem to me to be a more powerful tool???

I am going to hang with this script. Easy and simple. To move over music is too much for me, even if the sound change is another step. If there is anything wrong at this point with the app RAMdisk, it may sound a little "too good," but I bet I will adapt just fine. I mean, I was feeling amazed and happy before this script, my latest step up being another pair of DIY silver ICs from the VHAudio recipe replacing Grovers!

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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #40 - 10/29/14 at 06:41:40
 
I applied the Foobar2000 Ramdisk component - it took about 30 seconds to install. then about 2 minutes to figure out how it works. Either it's clunky, or I'm not fully understanding how it integrates into Foobar. It's pretty easy though, I just point it at whatever files/folder I want to add to Ramdisk, then right click and Add To Ramdisk (oddly enough). What's quirky is that it adds the files in another window, then I have to add them to a playlist. So it's like I have to add it twice. I guess this made sense to the programmer.

So far with my low level listening, noticeable improvement in upper mid detail and overall texture - which includes ambient detail. I'm kinda surprised as I wasn't expecting to be able to squeeze anything more out of this. I'm going to have to try with with/without Ramdisk tests to make sure I'm not foolin' myself, but as I keep proving to myself, my first instinct is usually right.

Re: Isolation. if you want to try isolation (assuming you mean gear and not speakers) a quick and inexpensive way of trying it out is simply to get a sheet of egg-crate style packing *foam*. The soft stuff that some people stick on walls and pretend it's sound treatment is what I mean, not cardboard. Float your gear on this stuff and it only costs a couple bucks, or free if you happen to have something shipped to you in it. Palo, I have a couple sheets you can try out. Note: I forgot who, but this was recommended to me by someone in the forums - it's the closest thing you can get to floating your gear on air - and if isolation is the best solution for you, this will let you know on the cheap. Once you know, you can figure out a more elegant looking solution.  :P



Re: Tube dampers and iso-cups - different animals. I may have mentioned this before, so sorry if I'm repeating - Steve sat me down in front of his preamp tube tester - it's the one that you can plug headphones in and run it hot so you can literally *listen* to the noise. I think Steve was trying to dissuade me from wasting money on tube dampers by letting me actually *listen* to what happens when you pop one on a tube on the (noise) tube tester. But what I heard was exactly what I expected - I could clearly hear the tube damper shifting the noise up to much higher frequency - so while it doesn't completely deaden as we think they do, it did push the inherent noise up in frequency, which I believe cleans up the mids, upper mids, and maybe that shifted noise gives the perception of enhancing the high frequencies. Either way - I like the change in sound and that's what matters. As for iso-cups - completely opposite of the foam - instead of making the gear feel like it's not in contact with anything (floating on air like I said), the iso-cups I think are hard-linking the audio gear to your stand. If that's draining the noise down, or shifting frequencies like the tube dampers (which would make sense considering people say different spheres make for different sound) I really don't know what's going on and I've not found a way to measure and document the changes. I really need to talk to someone that specializes in micro-vibration measurement.

All that said, I believe Steve has said a few times that his amps typically like hard feet under them, and location makes a difference - which matches up with what others in the forum have said. He pointed this out to me after poking fun of my really soft, big sorbothane Pangea feet I was experimenting with - he called them flubber feet.  ;D

I have way more money in the Herbie's stuff then I'd like to admit - but it was a learning experience and some of it made good improvements. You really just need to try it out and see what works best with your gear in your environment. I don't believe there are any hard and fast rules with this type of gear.
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #41 - 10/29/14 at 07:23:15
 

Damnit, no need to A/B the Ramdisk add on for Foobar. I've got my usual demo tracks loaded to ram disk and added to the play list and just letting it roll in the background while I'm typing away putting my thoughts here in the forums - and I've been completely derailed by at least 3 tracks while writing. CSN - Helplessly Hoping, which I've played to death in the past year, suddenly came alive tonight with even better separation and a little more detail.

Yep, Ramdisk is a thing...and it works!

I'm going to have to research this more to understand what's going on better. I mean, I understand the concept, but this is enough of a change I need to sit down and really get into it!

Thanks for the suggestion Palo!
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #42 - 10/29/14 at 07:47:58
 
There is an option in JRiver MC 18 - 20 under Tools>Options>Audio>Play files from memory instead of disc which accomplishes the same thing.  It is not recommended for use with NAS severs though as there can be loading delays.
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Reply #43 - 10/29/14 at 11:31:42
 
Not sure if it's the same thing but audirvana standard operations loads the file into ram before it plays.  Ramdisk is supposedly different.

There was much debate on the thread about how ramdisk could be better than just loading the track into ram before playing, but most people thought it sounded better.  

With both the ap and music on ramdisk I guess there is less or no interaction with the hard drive so less noise.

I hear more openness and detail which is typical anytime I do something to lower noise.
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #44 - 10/29/14 at 15:01:32
 
That sounds about right.

At this point I'm thinking about adding another 4GB of RAM, just so I can load more files into the RamDisk. I'm unsure if the software is smart enough to impose a limit. I put my whole demo list into RamDisk, which I'm pretty sure is about 4GB, and the software didn't bark at me as I have only 4GB total...

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Reply #45 - 10/29/14 at 15:27:25
 

Should I start my own thread since I'm further exploring Foobar2000, or do you guys mind if I keep popping in and adding info?

For example - the same guy that wrote the RamDesk component, also wrote this ABX component to compare tracks!

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx

It would be good for a Redbook, HighDef, MP3 test me thinks.
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Reply #46 - 10/29/14 at 19:48:06
 
@ Palomino ~ Yes, JRiver standard playback is from memory as well (hence the buffering before the tracks begin).  I believe that the "Play from memory" option is similar to RAM disk.  I've never tried it, but I'm going to give it a go tonight to see if I can hear any differences.
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Reply #47 - 10/30/14 at 18:42:16
 
Raven said "egg-crate style packing *foam*......it's the closest thing you can get to floating your gear on air - and if isolation is the best solution for you, this will let you know on the cheap."

I really wish my explorations here could support this Raven.

Roughly speaking, and aside from foot design/shape attributes, I have noticed that feet of a given material tend to sound sort of like itself ...metal sounds hard and brighter, hardwood sounds a little softer, soft wood is softer yet, but still articulate....and at the other end, sorbithane sounds mushy and uneven in its peculiar way.

With egg crate, there are variables of shape, thickness, petro formula and density---the proportion material-to-air. And how much material we hear relative to air is again effected by the weight of what we put on it. I retested it to check my memory, and maybe its the remaining air after compression from the amp that gives it a sense of neutrality, but compared to isocups, I hear reductions in extension on both ends, detail (especially micro and inner detail) and dynamics, macro and micro...The MKIV is heavy, but this test reminds me of when I have tried it before, and for me, foam is not the ideal reference for whether or not good feet would help my music.

Isocups seem to drain amp vibrations while also keeping shelf vibrations from getting to the amp. I think the Herbie's explanation sounds pretty right from my experience if you are interested: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm

With Decware feet, we are deciding to use hard rubber with the particular sound it allows/imparts.

I have never had any two foot types sound the same, and all I have tried do effect the sound. And I have not by any means heard it all, gravitating to DIY, and the less costly ones others have found effective, and that can be returned. It is all choices, and like everything else, how it works here or there depends on where we start. Maybe Decware feet will sound better to some, but this is not the case for me.


But the reason I decided to play around with feet was not this. My sound, always tuned into a pretty specific balance, I found the RAMdisk had cleaned it over the top. I had been tuning to musically balanced detail and clarity, in part compensating for unknown distortions introduced by my hard drive running my player software. My Mini is tweaked and damped pretty heavy, and Pure Music plays files entirely from memory, and the app and I have cut a lot of system stuff off (I even went into terminal so I could quit the Finder, and yes you can hear it). So it is amazing to me that by putting Pure Music into RAM (no music files), the sound changes as much as it does. It was enough to blow my carefully found balance of clarity with musicality...at least with lesser quality recordings.

In this balance, the minor distortion I was getting from my drive was actually pleasant, giving a slight softening sense of musical blending and texture. This is part of why it was hard to decide which I liked better at first. But compared with the RAMdisk, it is clearly noise induced.

Looking at the whole, there is the thing that tubes can introduce various levels of "inaccuracies" in compression, distortions, harmonics, frequency balance, and so on, but we tube heads really like them for giving a sense of beauty and realness to music! And where is the limit of cleanliness? I seriously doubt if any of my gear was voiced with Ramdisk clarity, nor Pure Music. But it is seductive...so I of course dig in.

With new sound changes, if I play with feet, or cables, or both, I can often find balance again. In this case I needed to take the edge off of a too-clean sound, to keep the clarity but more musically.

Before, trying for a smooth but still open sound, and more bass definition, I had put Jasper gemstones in the back amp isocups, between the transformer outer corners and speaker terminals. By putting back supersonic hardballs, and moving all four around a bit, the overly clarified qualities the Ramdisk exposed softened, the sound still open, dynamic and detailed, but friendlier.

On Vyokyong's advice, I bought some Soundcoat damping sheet from partconnexion. I decided to try it in the place of Herbie's grungebuster, grungebuster being a soft, rubbery material and wondering what the harder soundcoat would sound like under a shelf, the feet of the Mini, and under my Firewire drive that has the music. The grungebuster helped when I first put it in, cutting vibration. But I recalled I generally don't like Herbies Tenderfeet and they are sort of rubbery. The grungebuster is even more soft. Is it softening the sound too much?

I agree with Vyokyong on first impressions. The soundcoat sounds good, with the soundstage seeming a touch more clear, and with a tighter, but musical sound. I think it increased dynamics a bit too, but I need to play around more.... I may play with a combination of grungebusters and it next.

Anyway, I think we can safely say the RAMdisk has proven (once again) that noise from electronics, vibration induced and/or otherwise, effects the sound.
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #48 - 10/31/14 at 15:27:18
 
Thanks Will.  All good input.  My rig sits on a rather cheap metal cocktail table with glass shelves on the top (Amp) and dense particle board on the bottom (Dac, power supply, mini, hard drive).  Floor is short berber carpet covering concrete.  No pad.

To test your suggestions, I took out some closed cell foam from underneath the amp that I put there some time ago as an experiment and I did feel things tightened up a bit.  Soundstage may have also closed in a little though.  Still listening.

This has me wondering what further isolation will do.  Particularly on the lower shelf.  Given this quick little experiment, I can see there may be tradeoffs to get the sound you want.

Also, just trying to sort out the best bang for the $$ or hassle:

1. New equipment rack
2. Isolation (with existing POC shelf)
3. Mods to mini
4. Good USB cord and/or digital coax cable
5. More room diffusers

I think its interesting how I meander through this hobby finding improvements.  Its pretty random but with some big improvement spikes along the way.  

One of these days I intend to document my path and show which were my biggest "bang for the buck" improvements and maybe which order I wish I had done things.  Like how I wish I would have invested a grand in a Decware amp 8 years ago instead of the Class D amp I bought (now banished to my son's college apartment).
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Re: Audirvana Settings
Reply #49 - 10/31/14 at 15:44:38
 

I vote for diffusers!

Also, if you want to build a custom equipment rack, you know I have the tools and the skills. I've put mine on hold because I still need to figure out the layout of the living room/listening room if I get rid of my glass shelves and replace it with this heavy duty sand filled aluminum and lead shot filled maple monstrosity I'm building! Ugh, that even includes figuring out how I'm going to run power, as the outlet isn't near where the rack is probably going to go..ugh.

Anywho, if you buy the wood, we can build you a rack.
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