Over the years I've tried a few tweaks that after close examination I honestly can't say really improved the sound.  These fuses fall in that category, but I've had very limited exposure.  For me in the application I was using them, the Hi-fi tuning fuses I bought did nothing.  They didn't even change the sound, let alone improve it.  YMMV.

They were highly touted by Maggie owners to use them on the speakers because "all the HF signals travel through this cheap wire".  Seemed like it should make it better, but I didn't hear it.  I left them on and they got sold along with the speakers.  I never did try them in any electronics.

If your application benefits from their use, go for it.  Buy more.

What I find with many tweeks, if anything, is that they may change the sound, but not necc improve it. After some time, another change is introduced by way of another tweek. Perceived improvement is what it is. Strange as it may sound, I change the sound every once in awhile. I am happy with change sometimes, and I leave it until the next change. In the end, it's about enjoyment, not measurement.

I had been thinking of them for years. I had heard useful tuning differences from the metal used on power cord plugs (like F11 Furutech gold versus F11 Furutech copper), and with different power cord wire and size, so it seemed logical that fuses would matter...at the amp everything starts with them.

Then for me too, Mike selling some at a good value, I finally dug in. They most definitely changed the sound though I am still unsure as to the reason(s). The first fuse I got was a Furutech rated at 6.3 amps rather than the Torii MkIII's 5 amp fuse. I found it smoother, warmer and bigger, still with very good detail, but not bright and cool sounding like the stock fuse now sounded. I liked it  in most ways, but found the denser/bigger presentation a bit much. I had also gotten some HiFi tuning gold fuses from Mike to try. The HiFi Tuning gold 6.3 amp in the Torii was more open than the Furutech, but still a little big and dense to me. By then though, the benefits of the tuned fuses left the stock fuse sounding too hard and cool, so I kept the HiFi gold in.

I put a HiFi Tuning gold 3 amp in the CSP3, and this is was an immediate improvement in most ways without excess density. So I am wondering if a 5 amp Furutech or HiFi gold would sound better to me than the 6.3 amp fuses in the Torii.

Furthering the exploration, I decided to try a HiFi Tuning Supreme 5 amp. Somehow making it easier to pay 59 for a fuse, I tacked it onto an order from VHAudio for making a new pair of ICs.

This is my favorite so far. Great detail and smoothness, with warmth, but no dark density. I like it!

Yes, I agree. I am thinking that working in the last few percent is really sort of huge in the overall experience, and this sort of fine tuning can really help!

Yes, the Furutechs do something really special. Sweet, relaxed and detailed. It is a very similar quality as their copper receptacle which I love. I just did a bunch of comparison with my 6.3 amp Furutech and the 5 amp HiFi Tuning Supreme in the MKIV. Going back and forth between the two as well as changing directions with each. I need to get a 5 amp Furutech and see if it makes any difference in the density. There are things I like about both, but I might give the Furutech the edge today.

I got the two additional fuses in and put them in the second SCP2+ in the main system (which I removed from the system and put in the second system replacing my first CSP2+ there--I have one on the shelf now). I also put one in the ZP3 which now runs straight into the Torii Mk III in the main system. GLORIOUS SOUND. The ZP3 may be the best non-amplifier that Steve builds.

I want to try an upgraded fuse in my CSP3. I'm looking at the synergistic research red. It is directional I believe. Which direction is the electron flow? I'm guessing someone has already experimented with this to see which way sounds better?

I put one of these in an old class d amp and thought it helped the sound.  What is the type fuse to use in a Torii III?  Slow/fast, amp, size?

The manual shows 5 amp fuse but doesn't specify fast or slow blow.

reply #16 Quote:

Yeah, if you have the big IEC with the fuse in it, it will be a standard 20mm (small) fuse. Power fuses are usually slow blow so they don't pop during the inrush of current on startup.

I'm going to need some new fuses for my ZMA - I blew a fuse yesterday, and the replacement. So I have a failure somewhere in the system. After I get Steve to repair it, this might be an excuse to try a nicer fuse. (which I'm highly, highly skeptical of....especially when people start talking about directionality and all that...BECAUSE WE'RE DEALING WITH A/C!!).

All that said - it would sure suck to pop an $80 fuse if a tube blew...like what happened to me last night. So now that I think about it, buying an $80, probably non-sound improving part that's designed to pop and be thrown away sounds retarded.

I wouldn't say the ZMA makes those things irrelivant, as long as they aren't holding the ZMA back. A wimpiy 18awg power cord would probably have a sonic impact. LOL

Otherwise I completely agree with you the big caps on the ZMA make power regenerators and other power related stuff have little to no impact. It's such a great amp design!

I was going to try one of those discount Parts Connexion fuses, but they don't have 5 amp.  Only 3.5 and 7.

Lonely R said:
Quote:


Based on these circumstances and beliefs, I can't quite figure out why you would try one.

ILance,

It seems to me that even with really good gear and revealing systems, dedicated audio fuses are more about refinement than more obvious changes. But it also seems relative...with good reference tunes and serious listening, I find the improvements notable in this room, the level of refinement sort of huge in some ways.

There are just too many variables with systems and rooms that could cause things to be more or less easily heard, but I agree, the Red will open and refine with more burnin. Here, I am not aware of any system bottle necks, and the stock fuse in the P5 seems quite clear in general presentation, but is also cruder with harder edge detail...less complexity. Though several audio fuses I have feel darker/warmer, most seem to provide more complex musical information. After adjusting to one or another, the refinement can sound less clear and bright, but also more resolving....finer detail feathering edges, enhancing spacial information and doing it in a smoother way. Of those I have tried in the P5, the burned in SR Red is closest to a stock fuse in open clarity, but with notably more complexity and smoothness...more “analog.”

But I am all about refinement these days. Also I have not had a fuse blow but once, years ago, when I had a rectifier go in the MKIII. So weighing the improvements and risk, it is worth it to me.

I started with some used fuses, already burned in, a HiFi gold and a Furutech, both 6.3 amp (which seem fine in the P5, but may be too much in the Toriis???). Then I got a HIFi Tuning Supreme and a HiFi Silver (both 5 amp) and liked them both in the Torii. I don't recall which was my fav in the P5, but I heard some resolution benefits with the NEW SR Red right away, as did my wife, who had no idea which fuse was which other than A/B.

I just did a comparison in the P5. Changing directions on all 5 is noticeable, particularly important for micro detail and subtle articulation. And all but the SR, for my tastes, are best one way. The SR sounds better than the rest to me in both directions (an anomaly here). With the R end of the SR toward the inside in the P5, it is most revealing across the spectrum having more fine detail, ambient information, subtle articulation, and tighter bass. I don't find it to suffer from the very high level of micro detail...it is smooth and musical. With the S inside, I hear more tonal density and warmth, with a softer/smoother top, but still very good detail and a seductive slightly warm musicality. Which is “better?” Depends here....

Altogether, the SR stands out to me as more "complete”...freer flow, more openness, and better balance, micro detail and dynamics throughout. I also get a slightly wider and deeper soundstage. Next I would probably put the Furutech, or maybe the HiFi Tuning Supreme. The Furutech sounds better at micro detail and flow, but the Supreme has better frequency balance for my tastes, and a slightly more “analog” smoothness in this use but is a little "tight" by comparison. The HiFi Silver is next, a lot like the Supreme, but a bit less revealing, complex and refined. Last for me is the HiFi gold. I never really fell for this fuse though I liked it better than the stock fuse early in my explorations...just a bit too warm and veiled for me.

In my Toriis, that is another story, the signatures similar but effecting the amp differently.

Looking back, I would have heard the fuses before I got the P5 fine-tuned to my system, but not as much as I do now. I had to explore a lot to get the P5 to let my gear reveal what I had grown used to. Here, the regenerator had too much impact on natural tone and timbre, probably mostly from suppressed detail complexity, and associated, a slightly unnatural “warmth” and tonal rigidity...But once sorted out, it is really good in my system.

Along these lines, this may interest you.

I have been playing around with P5 Phase Tuning the last few weeks. The 0 setting has qualities that indicate it is likely “right” for the design intent, reflecting balanced clarity, articulation, and dynamics. But here anyway, going off 0 a bit either way I find it more musical. Both ways shift the sense of tonal rigidity with added detail complexity, increasing ambience, texture and space. If this is not specific to this system/room, zero, plus, or minus being better would depend on sound balance.

Minus opens/clarifies the sound with increased spacial information, fine detail, and edge textures. Plus adds a warmish tonal density, but also makes detail complexity and ambience seem more complete and natural. I find different Phase settings can also benefit from Hi Regulation versus Low Distortion settings, and/or a volt up or down. For more space, minus 3-4 is enough to get a feel for it here.....If it is a bit much with high regulation, the low distortion setting should soften/unite it some. Going out further than 4 is a lot to me here. Not having enough time to really get in deep, I am not clear on where I will end up, but doubt I will use zero anymore. At the moment, I seem to like these equally, for different reasons:

119V, Sine Wave, Phase plus 2, High Regulation
119V, Sine Wave, Phase minus 2, Low Distortion or High reg...

Edit: I need to do more playing, but somewhere in there I believe I can find a setting to hang with, later, perhaps making simple adjustments like High regulation or Low distortion based on recording sound...like gain riding with a CSP.

Exciting the ZDSD is coming soon. I look forward to your impressions of it, and what you find in your system with the Red fuse and P5 adjustments. It does seem variables keep mysteriously showing up when we are after great music at home!


Best I can tell from what I have gathered on the Phase adjustment, PSAudio designed it for unusual power issues, and says 0 is optimal for most. Harmonic Distortion is apparently really high with serious power phase problems and this can help solve it. Mine is 2.7-3 in, and the P5 takes it down to .1 or vacillating between .1 and .2...well managed, so they said I don't need it. It seems the regenerator syncs with the zero crossings of the sine wave, but the peaks can vary from center due to incoming phase distortion, and each phase adjustment seems to shift the peak a little to the right or left.

So when I first started looking at it as a sound tool, I checked the output THD, and settings up to 8 either way did not change the THD out reading, though they do change the voltage out reading a bit...With an input voltage of 122, and out set at 119V, in the Phase adjustment range I am exploring (minus 4 to plus 4) it shifts the output voltage here by .4 -.5 volts...minus 4 = 119.1, and plus 4 = 119.5/6. If this is accurate, I think this would explain part for what I am hearing, more density with higher voltage, but there is clearly more to it...Phase appears to be my friend!

Right now I am trying:
119V, Sinewave, minus 4 Phase, High Regulation

Getting into the 4 range is really spacious with articulate but complex edges, and less pushed/full than closer to 0 but quite dynamic....live sounding with these tubes and settings, good for Kind of Blue and Patricia Barber Nightclub anyway.

I am beginning to think this is similar to tube rolling in tuning potential.

The way the adjustment acts/sounds, I am guessing that for most power situations the effects may be similar to here, though different tastes and systems might take it to different places....But I don't know, so I look forward to what you find.

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You've got a PS Audio P5 now too? Cool!

Yeah, the changes are subtle, depending on the power supply of the device that's connected into it I believe.

the ZMA for example, little to no improvement. But then I put the little Zen amp on, and it's like WOW! There was also a thread in the PS Audio forums about a particular setting that sounded good for the DirectStream DAC. I didn't believe it but tried it myself and I swear I heard a little bit of improvement - just a bit more air and sparkle. Of course that was several Firmware back so it might be moot now.

Just having a power regenerator is an improvement - if you can happen to dial in something slightly better with the multiwave, then that's just icing.