I'm looking for some input on this particular Dac. Has anyone had any experience with these or any other tube Dacs? My situation is this I have a sony DVD player I'm using as a transport it is a bit bright sounding and was wondering if the tube Dac would soften it up a bit. I originally had a Schiit Dac and returned it for the Uber upgrade but after a month of waiting for it to be shipped decided to cancel the order and look around a bit. The Schiit Dac was also very bright sounding to me on the Sony transport. I have two other DVD players that I have also put into the system to compare sound and that is how I figured out how bright the Sony sound is but very detailed compared to the other two transports. If anyone has any other recommendations for tube DAC's I would like to hear about them. If you feel I'm off course on the way I'm trying to tame the brightness please chime in! Thanks all for your input.  

      There is one other scenario I am thinking about one of my other transports actually sounds a bit more musically pleasing and not as bright to listen to but does lack the detail of the Sony. Would I be better off with a non tube DAC with this transport? Would a decent DAC bring out more detail in this type of transport? Sorry lots of questions not enough experience with different arrangements. I've even considered an upgraded CD Player but like the idea of the flexibility of separates.

It's too bad the Decware ZDAC is no longer available, that was the warmest DAC I've ever heard, perhaps too warm for some systems.

I've not been a fan of the Sabre DAC I've heard in Peachtree and Oppo products compared to some others. Just a personal thing but I wasn't charmed by the family sound. If I were in the market I would look at the PS Audio NuWave just because I have two of the PerfectWave DACs that preceded this (at a much more expensive price point) and they are amazing. This little brother should be very good.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/audio/media-players/nuwave/

 DBC,
         I'm currently running a Sony BDP-S590 transport Decware interconnects to Decware CSP3, Decware interconnects to Jolida 502 P with stock 14 gauge wire into Heavily modified Polk LS 70 speakers and a set of Pioneer HPM 100's stacked under the Polks both pair SPL 90 good match and running at 4 ohm. All Pangea power cords. The listening area is 24' by 22' with 12 foot high cathedral ceiling no really flat direct reflecting walls lots of furniture and wall coverings almost has a cathedral sound effect if your familiar with live sound effects.  Any way that is pretty much it. I listen to John Hiatt, Three Dog Night, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, Celine Dion, Curtis Stigers. I do listen to rock music but not so much anymore. Hope this will help you out on understanding my set up.

   FireBlade,
   Thanks for the info on the Yulong I have not ever come across it looking at DAC's looks interesting and a bit closer to my budget. The Grant Fidelity would really fit the budget. I will probably do more reading on the Yulong didn't notice any US sellers when I looked I need to keep looking.

Thanks

Grant show Yulong http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Yulong-Audio-v13/

Have you listened to one FB?

Wow. That must have been pretty bright!

I run my DVR or my Blu-ray player (switch them around every now and then) off optical (I use a glass cable) and I think it's a bit smoother than coaxial, though the coaxial is very good, perhaps a bit more dynamic.

Shouldn't be different, bits are bits right?

I had an easy time being responsible when I had a wife. Since she has gone. . . it's harder. I should try harder.

That's a common opposition: musical vs. detailed. Hard to get the synergy where the balance between those is just right (for personal taste) but when you do. . . that's when you stop and be happy.

I used to work with a crazy old fart when I was in my twenties who at the end of every day would tell me. . . "Go . . . and be happy." He seems less weird to me now than he did then.

Digger, as Will referenced it, the ideal place to buy it from would be Grant Fidelity (Canada), as they really back up their sales, so you don't need to be dealing across the world. In fact, they sell Yulong cheaper than any other place in North America.

The Grant Fidelity TubeDac (from Yulong), is considered very good (and warm) also, except it is much less resolving than the D18, at almost half the price (no Sabre 9018).

The Yulong U18/D18 is very good according to many reviews by actual fan users in Head-Fi org., for example.

The trick of this design is it is the first successful attempt to keep the good aspects of the new Sabre DAC without the artificial or analytical projections it may suffer from. Just a very well voiced Sabre 9018 application design that comes across quite warm and smooth with all the detail-mining of the Sabre still on.

I was about to pull the trigger on that combo until I heard it may be too warm for my situation. Contrary to Digger's case, I already own two warm system pieces (MIni-Torii and DM945's) and I need a more neutral DAC. Yet, I'm still considering it as it is a great design. If my Mini-Torii would accept balanced inputs I would have gotten one already. Some have found the balanced output in the Yulong to be excellent, superior to the single-ended option.

beowulf, the Yulong that does DSD is the newer and much more complete (and expensive) DA8 model. Some consider it much better than its price range ($1,200 at GF). Of course, it has a preamp and headphone amp you're paying for.

There's a new D200 Yulong DAC coming up in April at half the price of the DA8 without so many features but same sound quality ... Right now Yulong is just perfecting the USB input stage on it, as everything else on the design has been completed. I may stick around and give this one a shot after the initial reviews come up.

  FireBlade,

       You have my attention with the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-11. There are some things I like about it one is it uses the 6n11 vacuum tube and are interchangeable with the 6922,6dj8 and 6h23n tubes. It also has a volume control that will control the voltage output on the tube out allowing me to keep the CSP3 in its sweet spot. The Schiit BiFrost didn't have this option and caused me to run my CSP3 at about 3 on the inputs to be able to control the harshness that was present at higher settings. Certainly seems like a more tweakable unit. The CSP3 also uses all of these tubes and I like the sound of them all pretty much since rolling them through the preamp. Nice tonal changes depending on the music and mood. The price is definitely low which will also allow for an upgraded power cord just hope the less resolving part isn't as noticeable as much as the warmth of the presentation. This may just cure my Sony transport problem it is very detailed but lacks the warmth. If this set up can maintain most of the detail along with adding warmth with this DAC I'd be very happy.        

   FireBlade,
         I went ahead and ordered the Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11 as you mentioned as a choice. It sure has some flexibility designed into it. I guess I'll see how it performs and let you know my impressions of it. I'm hoping the 6n1 tube up front will do the job. May need to swap out the Chinese tube will have to see. At least I have other 6n1 tubes laying around to swap.

Thanks for the info!

No DSD on the Emotiva, but at least it has the Asynchronous USB input.

FireBlade,

I do believe they have a 30 day return policy. I am looking forward to seeing if what I have read about them is true for me. There's always trade offs in equipment as Lon mentioned earlier in this thread. This should round out my system for this year just need to keep accumulating more music for a while. Its a lot more fun when you have something you look forward to hearing it on for sure. I have a store near me that is called the exchange and they sell a lot of used CD's for a $1.00 I've picked up 50 or so over the past couple of months. Its a hit or miss but it keeps me coming back to look for the new trade ins. Many of them have been in like new condition. They do also sell new and newer CD's so if there is something I'm looking for they most of the time have it. There also getting a decent sized vinyl section started its funny seeing the albums back after all of the years you didn't see them much.

I'll keep you posted on what I think of it!

Cheers!

Thanks!      

I'm really happy for you, Digger.  You still need to give it more burn in time, though. It is bound to get much better, as this unit is supposed to require a somewhat long burn-in process before sounding its best.

I would then try the tube output stage again, as this buffer may impart further sweetness without loosing any of the DAC chip-derived detail retrieving once it is settled in.

Keep us posted and happy listening.

FireBlade,

    I found a review that pretty much mirrors my thoughts on this DAC. Since he was able to put his thoughts in such a good and to the point review much better than I could of I decided to post it for others consideration. I have no knowledge of the other DAC he mentions but as far as his description of the Grant Fidelity DAC I have to say I pretty much agree 100% with his explanation of it. It certainly will not keep up with higher end DAC's but it is very musical and flexible in my system. I have yet rolled the 6922 through it. Enjoy his review it is pretty much spot on. I did upgrade to the Grant Fidelity power cord 1.5 meter that is offered with it for $100 with hospital grade cord ends.

NOTE: I realize I am posting this in a head-fi forum, though I am providing very limited information about the headphone output in the following review of the Tube DAC-11.  From the little listening I was able to do on headphones (decidedly budget Sennheiser HD203s at that), the sound characteristics I heard through loudspeakers was of a similar nature.

I have been using the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-11 for about 4 weeks now, think I have a reasonable “first impression”, and wanted to share my enthusiasm for a very high value piece of audio gear.  The Tube DAC-11 currently checks in at $350 and I feel you certainly get tremendous value with this DAC.  The marketplace is not short of DACs in this price range but there is a fair share of very mediocre gear out there and a limited handful of ones that punch above their weight class, so to speak.  The Tube DAC-11 comfortably fits in the latter category, at least to my ears.

From the standpoint of comparison, a number of reasonably decent DACs do inhabit this price range but considering the nearly “do-all” capacity of the DAC-11, it definitely represents great value.  A very welcome feature is the tube output stage which allows plenty of “tube rolling” options to change the sound signature.  The included Chinese-sourced 6N11 is fairly good.

It would not be all that useful to repeat the detailed features and technical overview available on Grant Fidelity’s website, so I will just provide the link for those interested in that information:  http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html.

I think most people choosing to read this review are more interested in my opinion of the sound from this DAC, not a rehash of technical details and the like.  It bears some notice that this is simply my opinion, one from a decidedly “amateur” audiophile, so take that for what it’s worth.  (As an amateur reviewer, please have some tolerance for lack of information or incorrect information, however unintentional.)  In short, I find the DAC-11 quite revelatory, not only in its ability to convey a very detailed, clean and crisp sound, but also revelatory in its ability to provide such a high sense of value.  I keep returning to this mantra because it is so surprising to me when I consider the level of performance relative to the quite affordable price.

The DAC-11 is a NOS design and will simply play whatever sample rate it is fed through its many inputs.   USB is capable of 24/96, while the optical and coaxial digital inputs support 24/192.  There are also 2 analog inputs which is great for convenience if other gear is to be hooked up and played through the passive on board pre-amp, or headphone stage.  Grant Fidelity themselves strongly recommend a power cord upgrade and while my upgraded cord was not super high end, it did seem to offer some improvements from the stock cord using some quick A-B tests.  I might try something better in the future.

Most of my listening was through the tube output.   I have not had the chance to try any other tubes other than the included 6N11, though I have an EH 6922 and a Philips JAN 6922 awaiting trial.  I did some limited headphone trials (good enough for me, but I did not do extensive listening so should refrain from any critical comments) but most of my listening was through loudspeakers driven by a power amp, using the DAC-11 as a preamp.  For the record, the gear: a Burson PP160 and Mission 752…perchance a slightly curious combination, but it is what I have on hand.  I used a Sony BDP350 for Redbook CD playback via coaxial cable, an iPod touch docked to a Pure i-20 via optical and coax, and a PC music server through USB as source equipment (Yulong ASIO USB driver).

The most salient aspect of the sound quality via either transistor or tube outputs is the remarkable detail retrieval, with a caveat as described below.  Of course, the ancillary gear will have some influence on this, but if you have reasonably resolving gear, the DAC-11 will shine.  The DAC-11 does especially well with recordings of jazz ensembles, small chamber classical music, acoustic pop/rock and individual singers and instruments.  I did find some limitations with larger orchestral recordings and to some extent multi layered pop/rock recordings as there was some congealing of the sound where I found individual placement of instruments harder to distinguish.  Nonetheless it hardly falls flat on its face with more demanding recordings such as a large symphonic piece; it fares admirably, but does not offer the last word in spatial detail and resolution.

Comparing the SS vs. the tube output, I found the tube preferable in my system as far as synergy.  My intention was to tame the inherent tendency to stridency and brightness in my amp and loudspeaker combination and the tube output of the DAC-11 accomplished this quite well.  Switching to the SS output, the same level of clarity and detail was there as with the tube but perhaps a touch brighter and more shrill in the top end.  I am quite sensitive to brightness-induced listener fatigue and I found after some extended listening, the SS output went in that direction for me.  This is not to say this would happen in every system but as mentioned my gear was already leaning to brightness.  The SS output did have a slight edge in bottom end extension but the tube output surprised me here with good impact and snap in the bass octaves.  Tubes often have listeners criticizing an overly euphonic sound but I found the tube output with the 6N11 offered just the right amount of “sweetness” and warmth while retaining excellent clarity and detail.  I have high hopes for the Philips JAN 6922 mentioned earlier as soon as I get around to it.

My comparison DAC gear was limited but many are probably familiar with the Burson HA160D, if not in person, then at least from many glowing reviews.  It is definitely in a different price category so the comparison is hardly fair but the DAC-11 did not throw its hands up and fall over, in fact it again flat out surprised me considering the price.  I strongly believe in synergistic combinations of audio gear and the DAC-11 works well in my system largely due to whatever brightness-taming capacity it has via the tube outputs, as alluded to before.  The HA160D is remarkable for its ability to convey stunning detail, provide exemplary extension in both treble and bass ranges and a very convincing midrange with great depth and soundstage.  The DAC-11, by comparison, does all of the above fairly well but is outclassed in every regard by the HA160D to my ears, but note significantly there is an $800-odd price differential.  Of note, I am finding some narrowness in the soundstage and depth in the DAC-11 but it is a slight quibble and likely to improve with further burn-in of the 6N11 or a wholesale switch to a higher performing tube.

In summary, the DAC-11 is an outstanding performer, not only for its excellent sound quality but for the many features it has and foremost for the remarkable price-to-performance ratio.  An easy recommendation.