Well I am going to try Genalex Gold Lion KT77s or KT88, which would be your choice?

I'm curious about this too, but I have the words from Torii's manual burned into my mind.

"Unlike the TORII MK II that used EL34, KT77, 6550 or KT88 without re-biasing the TORII
MK III uses our new Hazen Grid Technology to push the transparency, speed, tightness to
a level that greatly surpasses the alternate tubes. Since this is the case, extra voicing
was used to get the maximum sonics from the EL34 at the cost of making any of the
above listed alternates a waste of time because they will not sound as good"

So, while I'm curious, I'm not curious enough (JJ KT88 $39 ea at tubestore for example)  :)    

love to hear about any experiments.

good luck.

I'm going to ignore this thread so I don't end up with yet another box full of tubes. . . .

JJ6CA7 is the only JJ's I have used. They are cheap but so far I have never gotten more then 6 months from a quad. These have gotten my attention: http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-philips-holland-metal-base...

I just stuck back in my most recent JJ6CA7s. I got them from Cryoset and and hoping they last. In the past, when the tube was newly out, I would lose one tube in a quad  within 80-100 hours, so was able to work it out with the vendor. This set was later production and has maybe 500 hours with no problems. Hope they last. They sure have a nice distinctive sound. Makes me remember how much I like them.

Lon, you have either been extremely lucky  or many others have been very unlucky! Man I wish I could get more than a couple hundred hours out of a set, but one tube always goes. It really sucks. It gets to the point where it becomes more expensive to run tubes with failure rates. My last were from Cyroset and I hoped they would be better. Really frustrating.

Will, sadly all JJ's tubes seem to suffer from high failure rate if you look around the web. Some vendors won't sell them anymore. However their octals seem to nave the worst reputation. I think PaleRider has said this before.

The golden lion KT77 gets rave reviews and are seem to be very well made and that is why I was interested in them. However, for the price, I now wonder about spending more and going for those Psvanes EL34PH which as you say will still take advantage of the hazel grid mod. They are a few headfiers who are using them with Headamps Blue Hawaii Special amp ($6,000 headphone amp) and one poster said the "Psvane EL34PH is knocking the crap out of the Shuguang 6CA7-Z. It's not even close. Better everything, not more, just way better". Others report they surpass very expensive NOS EL34's. Psvane claims the design process costs even more than the WE300B 1:1 replica which retail at $900 a pair.

I had trouble with the Treasures from Decware, but it seems unless you buy from Grant Fidelity, you are getting lower quality tubes are meant to be sold locally in China. These new EL34PH's also have some issues, seem a bit fragile (centre guide pin can break) but Psvane says the pins are a bit larger then newer tubes as it is an exact replica so you need to be more careful. There replica series of tubes seem to be getting ridiculously good reviews. If you could actually get close to 5000 hours on a set they would be cheaper, than buying several sets of JJ's with shipping. Steve says the way the amp is designed tubes are supposed to last longer than normal, so that is not unrealistic.

Lon,

I wish I knew how the current the inputs draw effect the power tubes....I have been told that 6N1Ps do draw 600mah filament versus 300 mah for the others. But I can't use them in my MkIII because of too-early distortion, so if your thought is correct, I am out anyway.

orangecrush,

I just don't have the confidence to buy a 400 dollar quad unheard. Ran into the same sort of feeling with the KT77 Golden Lions due to Steve's opinion on the Hazen Grid mod...a $200 risk. At some point I decided to splurge on a good buy for some Siemens/RFT NOS EL34s...a favorite for many. Great and interesting sound, but they Just never got under my skin.

I agree with your thinking though. If the Psvane  EL34PH sound as good as reported, and they last, the Psvane may well be a great buy compared to failing JJ6CA7s over the long run. I don't get why they decided to be that purist in reproduction as to make the guide pins fragile, but you never know what does what with the revealing sound of our amps. Seems a doable thing though knowing they are tight and fragile...

I am in hopes that my latest Quad of JJs holds up...maybe they sorted out build issues. But I am discouraged that you have found a lot of reports on bad JJs. I really like the sound of the 6CA7s.

I think you have a good point there too. Who knows though. You deserve a little luck!

I am using the 61NP as well. I hear ya, $400 per quad is a gamble.

Grand Fidelity has just posted this to the EL34PH page.

Stock update: Some previous users reported tube pins too rigid or reliability issue. We have discussed with manufacturer to tighten up our quality control criteria to ensure all our customers to receive as high quality as possible tubes from us. We stand behind our warranty 100% and all current stock has been re-screened for the new criteria. Please purchase with confidence and we will be here to service your needs.

I've only gone through grantfidelity out of vancouver(i believe) and they are reliable.

JD

Thanks for diving in OC. I look forward to your impressions! I have been running cryo'd Mullard EL34 reissues lately.

I've been getting them from CyroSet. Thanks for the link it might come in handy. I will report back.

I've gotten quads of the JJ 6CA7 from Decware and indirectly from Decware (that is from forum members selling them when they came with the Torii) and from cryoset. (The cryo'd are the best, no doubt about it).

I have run about four pairs between three machines I ahve and get about 10 months to a year out of them; I run my amps hard, they're on about 2/3 of every day. That's reasonable life in my opinion for a power tube. I have had one failure, and that failed after I transported the amp and half of my household in the back of a UHAUL truck that shook like a mofo.

I prefer these tubes to any other that I have put in my Toriis. They're awesome power tubes, and I'm going to keep using them.

I am not sure that all JJ tubes are created equal. And one JJ story seems to be... wait until they are in production a while. I also noticed Steve stopped putting them in amps.

My personal experience with the 6CA7 is not great. I have had four tubes from 4 quads fail so far. The first two quads were from BOIaudioworks and the tubes failed fast (something like 100 hours). They were very accommodating...since a tube failed from the first quad, and then one from the replacement quad, I asked if I could keep the other 6 tubes in order to have some backup. They very nicely agreed. And one did...so I have one spare left. However, I have not used those tubes since, so who knows if I would even end up with a good quad.

Then I had a cryoset quad that sounded better so put the others away...I agree with Lon...they do all the sound parts a little better, but one failed.

Then I had another cryoset quad, later build, which is going fine so far with maybe 5-600 hours.

Who knows. Like I said, I am playing with cryoset Mullard reissues now and like them fine, though I have not done comparisons with the JJ 6CA7s or other EL34s I have.

I sure am excited to hear orangecrushes thoughts on the Genelex. Every time I have almost got some, I chicken out.

Dang, you're unlucky!

Maybe so. Maybe it's my Power Plant Premier. Maybe it's because I won't use 6922 types.  I see no reason to cease using the 6CA7s at the moment, I have two sets in use right now each with several thousand hours on them (one cryo'd) and love the sound.

in the tori mk111 manual the amp is voiced for EL34's and nothing else I presume, so read

To be specific, Steve said because of the Hazen Grid modification that using tubes other than the EL-34 would be a waste of time...not that they can't be used in the Torii MK III.  On the Torii MK IV page on the website there is a useful graph that shows the characteristics of Output tube types that can be used in the MK III and MK IV.  To quote the Torii MK III manual...

"Unlike the TORII MK II that used EL34, KT77, 6550 or KT88 without re-biasing the TORII
MK III uses our new Hazen Grid Technology to push the transparency, speed, tightness to
a level that greatly surpasses the alternate tubes. Since this is the case, extra voicing
was used to get the maximum sonics from the EL34 at the cost of making any of the
above listed alternates a waste of time because they will not sound as good."