I'm very satisfied with my current basic system, Mini Torii and DM945 speakers (Mundorf caps), especially after having had the experience of fine tuning the amp through some selective tube-rolling.  Although still an ongoing procedure with an end conclusion on sight, it has made me much more familiar with the sound characteristics of the Mini.

After analyzing my system for a while, I've come to the conclusion (again), that my weakest link is the sourcing component. Could be specifically my USB/DAC, the HRT MSII+.  Although a good overall entry level DAC, it is not up to the potential of the rest of the system.

Nevertheless, reading through Decware's technical literature, I've learned there are at least two ways to upgrade my sourcing component:

1. Replace the current DAC with a more resolving model.

2a. Improve the current sourcing potential with the aid of a preamp (i.e., CSP2+)

2b. Same as above but through a gain buffer stage (i.e., ZStage).

I can get two of these alternatives for about the same level of investment, with the remaining (CSP2+) being 50% more expensive, but with additional features.

Naturally, I would like to pose the obvious question to this experienced forum audience: Which route would be best in the long run?  I'm not in a hurry to do this, but it will be in my definitive next-step upgrading plan for the not too far future.

The MIni Torii has plenty of gain, pep and dynamics, so it's not the same situation as in the Super Zen Triode case, for example. Yet, I'm convinced there's lots to gain in boosting the sourcing via 'riding the gain,' as it will provide body and weight to an already fine setup, hopefully also releasing additional sound details, tones and hues.

Of course, I have no experience 'riding the gain,' so I need to ask this forum to confirm or disprove this hypothesis, which is just based on my interpretation of related literature, without actual practical confirmation.

I find alternatives 2a & 2b above quite interesting, especially when we consider the short life span of competitive DACs these days. The HRT MSII+ was one of the best at its price level still just a year ago. Thus, maybe a more stable solution as offered in these options would be worth considering.

We have three concrete choices on the floor, which one would you recommend and why?

I apologize for the extension of this message. Thanks so much for your valid comments and assistance.

I'd recommend an alternative route: power conditioning and attention to vibration control as a next level to go to.

Donnie, thanks for your input.  I agree with you, in part.

I don't think I'm aiming at that 2% short of 'perfection,' more like 15% (or more). Just room conditioning would improve at least another 10% (or more). I just cannot do much with the latter until I get a dedicated listening room.

The DAC is important, but to get tangible improvements you have to have a very resolving system and you have to invest steeply in DAC technology to really tap this potential. I'm aiming at the former, as it's a more gradually affordable and stable an investment.

I agree there must be a limit somewhere. But, for example, if I had skipped tube-rolling, I would not have improved my system so tangibly as I've had recently, and at a relatively low cost.

I just assume fine tuning gradually and progressively is a reasonable goal in this hobby, provided you don't go over your head. Finding out the next best step is essential in achieving and affording this goal.

My moods vary, of course, as do the quality of my recordings. But if there's an essentially sound system structure behind, you know these are not under your control.

I admit you are, philosophically, probably right though.

ncblue, thanks for your input.

I agree that is a golden rule in audio. What we are discussing is which source improving mean would be best at this point. All three proposed alternatives directly improve sourcing quality.

But, if you refer to the DAC, you may be right.

Lon, sorry I forgot the vibration controls suggestion. You're absolutely right there, these are definitely very cost-effective, indeed.

To me it is not intuitive to think in terms of vibration controls, as I'm not used to the idea and it's probably less a glamorous approach than others on offer. But given the definitive testimonials reported, I'll have to agree this is a next step ingredient.

The intangible nature of power conditioning makes it hard to 'buy' (pun intended!) as a concept, especially at those steep prices. Same with expensive and sophisticated power cords and speaker cables.

All is important in audio, and maybe we just disagree on selection sequence rather than absolutes. I'm convinced power treatments will help, but still resist the idea of investing in it before other, more pressing needs are there.

I know you assume these are all irrelevant if AC power is not taken care of, but this is a moot point in all of audio community.

Re the PS Dectet, I'm afraid I consider it essentially a good protection against spikes, surges and the like, more than the concept that would really work, as is the regeneration plant.  More affordable, absolutely, but I don't believe it to be superior to my Tripp isolation transformer in that role.

opnly_bafld,

I was brought to the attention of this paper by Steve in one of the forum's threads:

https://www.decware.com/paper50.htm


From which this is a relevant excerpt to answer your question:

HOW CAN A PREAMP MAKE THINGS BETTER?

A good preamp becomes an extension of the source enhancing it's dynamics and overall voltage swing as well as enhancing it's output impedance to more effortlessly drive difficult power amps.  

A good preamp can extract detail and timbre that is otherwise hidden by these conditions.  A good preamp can add body and weight and size to a stereo image and improve the depth and palpability of the sound stage. A good preamp can make tiny speakers and or tiny amplifiers sound and perform as though they were bigger then they really are.

A good preamp can organize the presence in a recording to create several more layers to the music.  It can pull things apart and make recordings sound less like recordings and more like real music.

The preamp goes a step further than, say, the ZStage in 'riding the gain,' some of which additional traits are quite appealing.

Although there's some definitive marketing hype involved, the statements raised in that paper become reality when the preamp's design is very good.  I believe the CSP2+ is that good, and could benefit not only power amps but integrated amps like the Mini Torii.

You may be right, though, this may not be too cost-effective an alternative given the preamp duplication, especially assuming the preamp quality in the Mini Torii is equivalent (?), but the difference in price with the ZStage is not that big considering all the other CSP2+ features, and 'riding the gain' is even more accurate with this preamp.

Okay. My experience is that the isolation transformers were insufficient and were far eclipsed by the PS Audio productts, and I used the very ones that Steve recommended. They made an improvement but not as deep as the Duets by a wide margin.

Anyway, best of luck, I personally feel that addressing the power is your best next step to maximize your expenditure.

Lon, got it. You may be right. Thanks for the good wish.

marky, thanks for the input.

I'm just trying to address what the best next steps should be in a gradual improvement pathway.

You may be right an eclectic approach would still work, in the end. After all, none of these measures would ever be counterproductive, I suppose. Except, is either the ZStage or the CSP2+, not both.

I think your take on riding the gain is right on, basically the same principle, except it is supposed to not only improve the bass power but also thicken the sound's body and texture, along with added dynamics and increased headroom for better frequency distribution.

The improved DAC is a must, I think. Whether this is the next best move or not depends on the capability of the current system to reflect that higher resolution potential. In my case, I think my system is already there, but IMO any new DAC's contribution would be much more evident and impacting within the context of 'riding the gain,' with all its implications.

kiwidave, thanks for your input.

I understand your situation perfectly, and agree we are kind of in the same boat.  I'm convinced the DAC needs to be upgraded, but given the high obsolescence rates in DAC technology, I'd not invest that much in those, as there are new, improved releases coming out all the time, at lower cost.

The DAC you just ordered is one of the top ones, congrats. I'm afraid it's a little out of my league, given its cost. I'm looking into a more modest model, the Resonessence Concero, which has had great reviews and I think fits my needs right on.

I'll be looking forward to your feedback on the sound changes you'll achieve with such an upgrade, but I'm convinced already it is going to be absolutely incredible. There are experienced forum members enjoying this DAC model and they have reported wonderful performance from it. I also understand it is upgradeable thanks to its modular design.

The combination of Concero plus a preamp like the CSP2+, or even the ZStage, is IMO a powerful, more comprehensive system upgrade and at a fraction of the cost of the PS Audio DAC. Come a year or two, I can always upgrade the Concero with the leading newcomer in that price bracket, and still beat obsolescence.  Of course, the Concero willl never be at PS Audio DAC's resolution levels, but fits a more modest budget.

Eventually, I may even be able to add some kind of AC power conditioning component, as it seems many experienced audiophiles swear by them.

Cheers,
David.

Congrats Dave. A very fine DAC indeed. I believe you will be very pleased.

Fireblade, you are so right about cleaning up the power. I am one of the ones that swears by that.

Well Greg and I bought Power Plant Premiers for a grand or so which is not pie in the sky audio money, and I for one will say that they are worth every penny and more, even improving on the bedrock that the PS Audio Duets had given my system as a foundation. I see deals like this often enough. . . I'd save up, and again it's a really good "next move" for you, may make more bang for your system than a thousand dollar DAC will.

But enough said, however you invest, you are going to reap the rewards through the MT and DM45s.

I understand, Lon, but today the cheapest PS plant is $2,500.00, and that is a lot of dough for me.

We'll keep looking around, and I may find something more affordable and hopefully good enough.

Thanks for the advice

Fireblade, the current Power Plants are indeed a bit pricier, but it is worth it to check B stock at both PS Audio and at Music Direct. Also, a saved search on fleabay can be very useful here, as is a saved google search for places like Audiogon. That's how I found mine. The PPPs are getting harder to find, but worthwhile.

Fireblade,

I'm auditioning a PI Audio UberBuss in the next few days (free in home audition) and will report back on my findings to what it does to my desktop system

-H

HPDJ, thanks for your input.

I'll look forward to your report. What's the difference between the UberBuss and the MiniBuss (I mean, in terms of current handling, etc.?)

There's very little technical information on their site, mostly marketing/sales rhetoric.  The huge difference in price between the two models, which appear to be based on the same design, is not explicitly justified.

If the capacity of the MiniBuss is enough in my case (small amp and maybe a low current source/DAC), and if it is essentially the same design, I think the MiniBuss is the most cost effective.

Maybe once you test the UberBuss, we may figure out the difference. Thanks!

Fireblade,

I agree that their website is pretty slim on details about each product...

I would list some info here, but after typing a few things I started to feel like a commercial for PI Audio haha, so here is a link (instead) to an old thread on their audio circle forum that may answer some of your questions.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79531.0

Also, you should email Dave, the head of the company if you have any questions. He is super responsive via email and has been very patient with all the questions I've had thus far. I hope I like what I hear with his gear in my system

I'll quickly add that I've experimented with vibration control and also (very briefly) with one aftermarket power cord. I really heard no differences in my system at the time...I feel that with the addition of a power conditioner I'll actually be able to better hear what the power cord is doing (or taking away noise wise) and also what my vibration control "things" from Herbies are doing as well. So I'm basically giving this avenue another go and trying to address the weakest links in my system so that there is no bottleneck that is holding the system back from playing at it's best. I do feel that everything will benefit with more sturdy, clean power. Right now that concept seems to make sense to me..

I'm even gonna be able to demo some power cords from Triode Wire Labs when I demo the UberBuss so that will be cool. I will be able to have power cords from TWL on my amp and (new) DAC from Resolution Audio at the same time. This should prove to be informative. More to come......

I've had mixed results with certain materials used for vibration control, cork and rubber combo's have not worked too well for me a couple even seemed to deaden the sound. Herbie's isocups under my zen torii do a wonderful job sitting on my core audio black maple amp stand and the combo look great as well.  It is an interesting journey...

JD

Quote:

+1. +10. +google. I love the Iso-Cups. On the exceptionally well-made, and very-easy-on-the-eyes ZRACKs, they are lights out.

HPDJ, I find it odd that you don't hear the effects of the Herbie's Audio products, and hope you do further down the line. I really can (and others I've asked their audio opinion of in my home can as well) hear the effects, I can even tell the difference when I use different types of "balls" in my Iso Cups (man, I love the sound from the "deep green moss" gemstone balls!)

Keep us posted! I can't imagine having such an awesome desktop system! I have never needed one at home, and never was allowed to at workplaces in my work life experience.

David, that seems sound to me. I've little experience with a desktop etc. set up. The last time I did have that was with a light weight set-up that I had the speakers on Herbie's products, and the transport/amp on its own feet. Felt there was a slight improvement with the pads under the speakers. But if I'm remembering correctly it was pretty lo-fi all the way, by necessity, staying in an apartment in another city for just a few months.

Fireblade/Lon,

Yes, what you've mentioned makes sense and I will definitely try to isolate the Trap's from my source/amp and see if I hear any improvement!

Steve at Herbies had basically suggested the same thing to me via email...though he suggested one of his products to put underneath the Trap's, not knowing that this is not really an option for these speakers because they are bottom ported and if you raise them up further off the desk they will loose that port from the tiny slits off the sides of them and thus loose their bass punch and depth. This is why I bought the iso-cups and tenderfeet in the first place, so I could isolate the components from the speakers and leave eveything on the desk, but as you've said:

Quote:


Which means I should look into some stands for them, which then makes me feel silly because these are desktop speakers!...this would mean that anyone with speakers on their desk is not getting the most out of their source gear because of these same vibration issues...but I know that some people DO keep their speakers and other components on the same desk and they have no complaints...I really hate to make "much ado about nothing"...Basically my ears will tell me the answer once I'm able to set the speakers on something else temporarily...I don't know what that might me though, I don't have much furniture to play with in that respect...I guess I'll just put em' on the floor for small periods haha :/

But you know I could put my source/amp on a rack right next to the desk. This might be the best option, but stands can get pretty pricey (well, what can't in the audio world right??) and I'd need 4 shelves so I could include my TT and Phono Preamp...

I definitely have looked into this a bit already (stands). I thought initially that maybe I could keep the components on platforms ON the desk in addition to using Herbies stuff, something like maple platforms etc....but I will eventually need a rack down the line, so maybe that's the way to go....what are your thoughts? Thanks for your opinions!

HPDJ,

I think the reason other people may have not had negative comments on sharing speakers in the same desktop structure, is they did not tried to improve things with anti-vibration aids, and then finding out these were not making any contributions.

In your case, it is good that you tried that, as now you're more aware of the potential vibration problems you may have with this setting. I'm almost sure those other people are living with the issue just for the convenience involved with having a desktop setup.

This gear is so noble, it still sounds nice in spite of those problems, but I bet their inherent sound quality is significantly higher.

Will,

Since you have experience with the Uber-line concept, would it be enough to connect a MiniBuss to my isolation transformer, and therefore combine filtering, isolation and surge protection? How far from what the UberBuss offers would this combination achieve?

I'm having a problem discerning the difference between a Power Conditioner (like the UberBuss) and a Filter Extension (MiniBuss). Also, these concepts seem a far cry from power regeneration plants. In the case of PS Audio's 'power regeneration plants,' I understand the concept and would love to use it, except for the high price.

The problem for me is understanding the implications of EMI (electro magnetic interference) and RFI (radio frequency interference) in my household context. As far as I can tell, I'm not exposed specifically to either type of interferences.

I also don't know what a PFC network means.  The conditioners seem to have 'EMI/RFI noise reduction' and something called 'PFC network.' The MiniBuss has 'HF filtering w/ no MOVs to degrade the sound' and 'RFI absorbing material, lined with ERS cloth.'

I have the same problem with PS Audio's Dectet, as with the Mini-Buss, seemingly mere filtering, component isolation devices.

Thanks for your feedback.  In the meantime, I'll try to contact Dave at Uber-Line, for some orientation.

Is there any way to get this Dave's mail address?  I looked all over the Uber-line sites, without any luck.  If someone has it, I would really appreciate it.

I need to choose between Dectet (PS Audio) and Mini-Buss (PI Audio). Thanks!

Hubert,
Here is an idea to try with your Trapeziums....Buy a couple of small cutting boards that the Traps could sit on. This will emulate the desk top, keeping the port in tacked. Then you can uses your Herbies, or whatever else you want to use under the cutting boards.

Just a thought...

Zygi

Got you on the stands...Seems Bob's thought could offer subtle placement flexibility. I use grungebuster material in a number of places. Might just do it for the cutting boards. Steve would certainly have input on that. You can get a small sheet of the grundgebuster pretty reasonably and cut as desired to get loads if dots of coverage. I swear, you should be able to hear cable differences and so on with your setup.

Yes I have an avatar acoustics power outlet that I connect a VH Audio Hot Box power strip to...I thought all this would be enough, but the missing points are better power cords on the amp/source equipment and some power conditioning..

The UberBuss I audition should be very well seasoned because it will be the same unit they have been using for in-home demos for a while

It will be good to experiment with the Hotbox and the Uber, I agree

Which on of Daves Power Cords do you have? Did you have a chance to try some different ones before settling on his cords?

Got a reply from PS Audio CEO, McGowan: He recommends to have my Isolation Transformer in series with his Dectet for better results (I guess, mains noise and surge protection from the Transformer and RFI/EMI suppression from the Dectet.)

I'm thinking if Dave (PI Audio) has a similar reply, I'll go with the Mini-Buss instead, given the almost half price difference.

Will, there are so many gizmos and theories out there, my head spins. There's no way to try them all or prove anything, and the task is very subjective. I think you have over-killed the issue, and that's fine, but is really difficult to find a really optimal solution in this case.

I don't think I'm going to escalate the rolling to include power cords also, but that's just me.  :)

Lon,

The norm is to use at minimum an Isolation Transformer. Maybe yours was not in good order, or something else in the system/house was counterproductive to it, but I've had no issues with it and it is designed for mains noise suppression and surge protection, aside from providing a dedicated circuit to the system.

I dig the concept of power regeneration, and someday I may save enough to get me one of those devices with it. In the meantime, I know my only uncertainty is whether I'm a victim of RFI/EMI to a tangible level, so I'm considering adding this ulterior filtering to my Isolation Transformer, and call it a day for now.

I also need vibration control to some basic extent, so it seems now I agree with you, Lon, on both upgrading priorities.  

Lon,

Thanks for the tip on the HC. I burned it in on my computer circuit and refrigerator for a month or so and then on my Torii for several weeks, but as you have found, some of these things can really go a long time! Also, with these cable ends and cable for my kit cables, I have no idea what they would cost made up and retail, but presumably, they would be pretty high.

I will check around next time I get to playing with cables based on your experience though, so thanks for chiming in. I can really see how it might perform well with a high current like a bass amp (and how it could take forever to burn in).


FB,

Quote:


True, sound perception is subjective, as are each of our perceptions of value.

I actually I ended up with a lot of varied but well researched stuff, but it was one at a time over years (each part, being fully adjusted to the system/room sound to listen objectively to new stuff) with trial periods. The Uber was in the same progression, which iced the cake very nicely (but also, made the impact of some smaller power/room components less powerful, but not enough to take them out and sell them for me). With cable ends, it was one at a time too, experimenting and getting what I liked best considering the value, exploring carefully on each cable, and going on from there. And yes, there is obviously a difference in sound with home made cable materials and construction, as with commercial ones. Gold Furutech sounds different than Copper as does everything in a cable...materials and construction, even how you treat the cable end plugs.

Admittedly it is fun for me to explore in this way, but I rarely hear/read anyone else on this or other forums who feel the music in their rooms so engaged by it that it has the ultra-transporting and eery sense of players in the room. This could be the system/room, or just me, perception depth, time and inclination to explore, or many other things in combination (some might say delusion). Who knows, but most I know consider me extremely perceptive on a relative scale. I always have had super tuned senses and loved playing and modifying instruments and stereos from about 12 on. And my system is unbelievable to me...better than any I have heard, homes, live, in stores, whatever. I love it.

Also, as things get more refined, all is pretty great no matter the arrangement of cables or whatever, but also most every change is obvious in its own way. I am burning in what so far appear to be some warm/bassy power tubes and by changing the NOS Raytheon OC2s to NOS RCAs (input tube regulators) things came in nicely for me, opening the sound enough so that with some fine treble/bass adjustments on the Torii, it is a very, very good "breaking in" sound. So good, I would not know something was green if I wasn't the one who is exploring. That is a minor change in my tube rolling, but still enough to make a substantial mark in a very real way that brings pleasure and enjoyment to green tubes.

So really, without listening to each part or "roll" in this system what you "think" relative to your imagined perception of me or my system means little to me. It is exactly because my system/room is so refined from progressive improvement over many years that it reflects these changes and we each find our own refinement and synergy in our own way, based on our individual (and original) preferences.

FB,

I get that and assumed this was the case...it is just that opinions without experience are often very personal, and therefore less clear due to some complex of theory or bias (that may not be our friends) rather than experience, making them not necessarily real. I have no issue with anyone stating opinion, but when it is unfounded based in my experience, then I will speak up also (if I feel like it.)

Its all a very interesting exploration to me, and I am glad we are all into it together on this and other great forums. It flexes our perception and broadens our ability to perceive reality, and to find new and useful ways to realize the potential of what we love in the music.

I absolutely do not expect everyone to follow in my steps. But when someone is exploring something I have explored, and I feel like my information might be useful, I feel obligated to be as clear as I can with in my experience and interpretations. I am sorry if comes off has "the way" or something to you.

To me, I hold that your opinion is unfounded in experience, not that you are not entitled to your "opinion."

Lon shared:
Quote:

Lon, will be interesting to hear how the new digs sound; do you have a time frame for how long your audio system will be down?

Like you, I did not find pleasing my try with the Tripplite; I tried two, but was unimpressed. I have also had all sorts of power conditioning, brickwalls, balanced power [still use the Transcendent BPS on my office headphone rig, where the power draw seems less demanding], silly Monster products, including that big pig the AVS-2000 [which mostly showed that the power in my area, both at home and office was fairly reliable, if prone to occasionally drops and surges, especially at the office]. But nothing, but nothing, had the impact of the PS Audio PPP [thanks for encouraging me there] I would love to find room in this year's budget to upgrade to a pair of P5 Power Plants, but I don't need, need them. Even when compared to power in the wee hours, which is quite stable, and lower noise, as one can see from the lower activity of the Noise Harvesters in the room, the deep blackness of the background, the sense of robust depth and full soundstage on huge choral works, and high resolution, high dynamic records such as R-men's I Thought About You is just amazing. And in the quiet, something like the O Holy Night on Cantate Domino, when you can feel the church around you, when you are no longer listening to music, but something more, the outpouring of emotion, is indeed breathtaking.

I had an AMAZING time with my Trapezium's today and had one of those classic digging-though-my-collection moments because the sound was so good!

I placed my Trap's on the floor in front of my rug about 4 feet apart and I sat about 4 feet away (I'm usually only 2 feet away from them)...if you've been following the thread, it was suggested that I try to isolate my amp/DAC from my little Trap's in order to have them be less susceptible to the vibrations created by the Trapeziums down-firing port.....well....I somehow forgot about listening critically and was having so much fun playing track after track with my system!

Due to the changes in proximity from my usual listening position and new distance b/t the speakers on the floor, it's hard for me to say if there were added bonuses from the lack of influence of vibrations on my amp/dac. Also I played the music a little louder than usual in order to get some larger music-images and feel the fantastic PUNCH these speakers are capable of (when Steve wrote that these speakers have amazing bass he was not kidding!!). So all I'm basically saying is that I will have to do some more listening with some fixed variables in order to clearly see if I hear any changes from isolating the speakers from the amp/dac....

Ok, here are some of the tracks I played. I'm very familiar with them all (except one) and may try to use them in the future when evaluating gear...I could think of a couple more tracks to add actually

House of Waters, Elsewhere (album).  
-This is a group I saw playing in the subway here in NY and was blown away by how amazing they were! Particularly their Hammered Dulcimer player, he was a virtuoso on the instrument! Their music has great punch and delicate swirls, gentle bells/flutes, crashing cymbals, and authoritative bass runs. I even chatted with him after I promptly purchased their CD...I like picking an artists brain a bit when I get the chance...cuz i was really in awe of these guys. You should definitely check them out if my (meager) description sounds interesting to you at all. Actually something tells me Steve D. would really like them haha! If I ever go to Decfest I will have to bring their CD with me!

Fela Kuti, Expensive Shit (album)
-The horns, group vocals, deep electric bass/bass drum, synth keyboards and percussive accoutrements  were ALL here to delight in. My whole body was moving with the music!

Eric Dolphy, Out There (album)
-I LOVE this guys music and the last track on this album ("Feathers") has this deep bass and gliding sax that gives me chills every time I hear it..

Miles Davis, Miles Smiles (album)
-The song "Circle" is maybe my fav off this album

Beethova Oba (Haitian Artist), Futur (album)
-Saw him play live a few times, he is AMAZING and a great guy (got to meet him). He is a completely self taught guitarist with a very unconventional way of playing...I believe he is a lefty that plays a "righty" guitar WITHOUT rearranging the order of the strings. Unlike Hendrix who I believe DID rearrange the strings. Anyway this is impressive to me even more since I play guitar and am self taught as well. Oh and the first track on this album is dedicated to his mother. The words are in creole but even if you can't understand it, I think the music is conveying it all! The strings sounds soooo great!

Robert Plant and Allison Krauss, Raising Sand (album)
-This is the only album I'm not familiar with yet...I'd been meaning to buy it for a looong time and finally got around to it. But like a lot of my musical purchases, I didn't crack it open because I wasn't "ready" yet. I'm really all about waiting till I'm "open" and "ready" to listen to an album (sounds a bit silly but it's what feels right to me I guess). I've played music that was great, at a time when I wasn't in the mood and totally missed what it had to offer me so........yeah, you get the point..

Anyway, I'm still not quite in the right place to hear the whole album, but I wanted a little taste so I played just the first track and it sounded quite nice...a little boomy in the bass but that could be due to  a bunch of factors I haven't considered yet and...am not that concerned with right now. My DAC is still burning in too so, yeah. That's one thing

Led Zeppelin, In Through the Out Door (Album)
-I'm a big fan of the latter Zep catalog and tend to prefer it (in general) over the earlier stuff....BLASPHEMY I know haha, but in short (cuz I could go on) they were on some other sh*& during the latter years that I just really dig. And don't get me wrong it the least, I love the early stuff as well. Ok I'll admit it, Zeppelin is my favorite band of all time! "All of my love" is just.....yeah, out of this world. What a song! I actually have the remastered "Best of " they put out in 2007 I think AND I have the year 2000-something whole ITTOD album and the remastered ones vocals were a bit more clear and the bass had more thump. I liked the newer remastered one. I DON'T like compilations though. I just bought it cuz it's Zep and I wanted to hear how it compared to the other mastered version I had

This post long enough for you yet?? haha. Thanks for reading and wish me luck with this impending snow storm coming to NY  :-[

HPDJ, thanks for sharing that listening experience. Your enthusiasm for House of Waters intrigued me. I found them on iTunes and Amazon, but those are lo-res of course. Still, the previews were good enough for me, so I found the House of Waters website, but they only seem to offer downloads there. But at the artist's website, you can order CDs. I like the reference on his bio page: "the Jimi Hendrix of the hammered dulcimer."

Thanks for that info.

My Tripplites don't make audible noise to the ear at the speaker etc. but my Power Plant showed me it was introducing noise. And it imparted a sound to the equipment, that was the biggest negative. Radcha heard it too using both these and the Duets and that helped me to isolate it. Without the Tripplite the sound was more natural, less digital sounding.

You could purchase an outlet with surge protection, such things exist, and then use the Dectet or the Uberbuss etc. Or just enjoy what you have.

I should have better power at the new place, but with my Power Plant. . . it really doesn't matter that much I wager.

Pale Rider,

I'm so glad you looked into House of Waters! If you order the CD let us know what you think...I think I'll eventually get their other two CD's as well...

I didn't see the bio that compared him to Hendrix haha! That's hilarious....his playing is definitely out of this world though

Good for you, Lon. I'm also getting more involved in this hobby since having retired, and it is very exciting.

I received another mail from McGowan, stating the Dectet is also a surge, spike and voltage variation protector too, so it seems this is a strong candidate (also one of your suggestions).

Shame I would have to put the isolation transformer in the closet and the combined cost of the two devices would have bought me a better power conditioner.  :(

Power cables are another PIA for me. No technical handle works here either, and the choices are innumerable. Costs could also become quite steep.

I still need to upgrade my speaker cables someday, as these are entry-level Kimber Kables, a far cry from the ZStyx's, for example.

But, I basically just started, and I'll take it one day at a time  :)

I forgot that my Duets are surge protector devices (MOV based) and the Dectet is supposed to be an improved model by NOT using MOVs. I bet these are great units.

Ok, my current upgrading plan:

Short-Term:

- Last tube-rolling stage (a few more 12AU7/12AT7 choices)
- Vibration control (Iso-Cups, Fat and Square Dots)
- Power conditioning (Mini-Buss or Dectet)

Mid-Term:

- DAC upgrade (Concero or equivalent)
- Speaker Cables upgrade (ZSTYX)

Long-Term:

- ZStage or CSP2+, for Riding-the-Gain 'oomph!'
- Move my listening to a spare room, with absorbing materials

There, this ought to take my sound quality level to a higher order of magnitude.  

Right now, my system sounds delicious, and the only thing I miss a bit is the 'oomph!' in some classical music passages recorded with high dynamics.

Short-term measures will produce overall tangible results.

Mid-term ones will contribute with higher resolution and transparency levels.

Long-term upgrades should increase dynamics (oomph!) and overall sound quality.  

Now is a matter of keep saving towards each consecutive stage. This hobby is exciting!

No sweat, but unfortunately it's still out of my league at this point.