I have RCA,Sylvania, tungsol,GE< and Orange amperex. havent tried a Bugle boy. the best advice i can give is alway go back to the stock tube ,and ask yourself .is it really better. So far, for me,  its been a waist of money. Did this with rectifiers too. so I have alot of extra tubes , not nessessarily better tubes. it is fun to experiment though!!!!

Exactly. Rolling tubes isn't necessarily always about being better, but about changing flavors. As I posted in the Torii thread one of the coolest things to me about Decware stuff is how easy it is to tailor the sound to one's desire on any given day, any given moment. Do you need to buy a bunch of expensive tubes to get the best from the amps? Of course not. Steve certainly knows what he is doing. On the other hand, his tasted might not be yours. Having a choice in the matter is what makes this so much fun(to me) and/or maddening to others.

FWIW I agree with Mark about that Bugle Boy 6DJ8. Swell tube.

In my system with the Torii as amp, I have tried lots of input tubes, and for my tastes the 6N1P is a nice sounding tube, but near the bottom of the NOS tubes I have. How this relates to the Zen Triode, I can't say, and obviously there are those who disagree with this for the Torii. Also, I have a lot of nice NOS tubes for comparators.

For me, the Torii is very tolerant of changes because you can adjust the bass and treble knobs to fine tune and you can change the Voltage Regulator tubes for more refining to taste.

I agree with Mark and sberger...to Mark's thought, I would add that within a given person's sound perception, in my experience, what we are able to hear is also based heavily in system/room characteristics. Over time, as my room and system have become more refined, I can both hear clearly any little change (ICs, Power cords, tubes, damping feet, even foot placement is clear etc), but also, about any tube set can sound good. Then with a little mixing and matching, about any tube I have can sound great!

But I do gravitate toward a certain range of sound with deep but refined bass (balancing clarity with body); open midrange with a slight warmth, texture, and lushness; and extended, but smooth highs.

Within this, as sberger speaks to, changing it up is a really fun and engaging, and I find the variations are endless and exciting. It can be a nice awakening to the subtle qualities of the sound and a deeper view in into the musical experience. But it can (sometimes) take changing the rectifier after the input to find balance. So I would think a small range of good rectifier variations along with the inputs could really help with tube rolling in the Triode.

I do have a lot of tubes, but lately, I find I mostly change rectifiers and inputs, with the power VR a nice tuning device to open it up or make it more dense if needed.

Also the tube Mark is talking about is the most respected Bugle Boy made...the late 50's D getter. I have not heard it, but my assumption is that it is a very, very good tube, and that the 60's BBs with hallow getters are good tubes, but not the same.

That said, in comparison with the 6N1P in my system, the early 60's Bugle boy is a good variation. It has similar warmth, more inner detail, texture, and sparkle, but a bit less bass density.

My favorite 6DJ8 today is a Mullard A-frame pull from parts connexion (I think they say they are near new..like less than 10% used) and it doesn't break the bank. It is  balanced top to bottom, has an amazing warmth and lushness without detail sacrifice, excellent detail retrieval, excellent dynamics (micro and macro)... and smooth highs (that is in the Torii). I tend more toward transparent warmth than darkish warmth myself. If the tube creates the "warmth" without the subtle inner details that bring out the subtleties and textures of the instrument/voice, and also the ambient spaciousness, I miss this aspect of  the "atmosphere," with its heightened sense of players in the room. For me, in my system, this tube has a lot of warmth, but it is refined warmth that is alive and atmospheric. Note: this is with a very open rectifier...

If anyone looks into these I would call, they had both A-frames and large hallow getters in this sale lot when I got mine, and they are not necessarily matched unless you ask.

All that said, I listen more to 7DJ8s than anything these days.

I have found my favorite "so far" to be an telefunken 7dj8's.

Great post Les well said.

Please,please,please always go back to the stock tubes. theres somebody in East peoria that has a great set of ears ,and you can hear that with the stock tubes.......this is not my idea , but go to a Rite Aid ,buy the Dentek small brushes and some alcohol and clean all your dirty tube sockets and tube pins , no fault of anyone but they were probably dirty from new, yes new, anal, yes! does it make a difference ,yes.Will save you a ton of money. will I still seek out other tubes yes its fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've experimented with 6DJ8 tubes and really never found one that does the job for me. The 6N1P tube type has been the one I've gravitated to over the years and I've just held steady with those and built my rectification and regulation and power tube choices around them.

If anyone's interested, I do have a fairly objective test for fidelity-- and please don't roll your eyes on this one:  It's the resin on a bowstring... That's right... that 'pulling' sound you can only get if a single bowed string sounds right, assuming the recording is good...

I can pick it out right away, that is, if it sounds right... The BB 6DJ8 'D' getter gets it right every time for me on my system, that is the Zen triode with my Tang Band back loaded single-driver horn speakers... Admittedly, with a CD player as source...

Also, the piano... Any coloration is immediately apparent to me on my system... If the timbral accuracy and pitch isn't just right, I grimace... By the nature of the length of the piano strings, the bottom should bloom wide and full, the mids should be somewhat thinner and well defined, and the highs should be rather thin sounding...

On soundstage: A system's soundstage shouldn't sound any different than, well, a real stage... To my way of thinking, it shouldn't sound any bigger, or wider, than when you're listening to a live concert in a good venue...

It's all mater of scale... I don't want a 12 foot wide contrabass, or any other instrumentation sounding bigger than it really is...

(m.)

I find that the more my system improves the more I`m drawn into the art of the...drummer. He has so many sounds emanating from his  kit, and I hear deft touches on the cymabals, quiet rolls, timbre, the psssssp of the h/hat that all sound clearer and more enjoyable. He seems to be the last player to be uncovered clearly.

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Not for me! With a good selection of each tube type, I have loads of flavors of "right." In fact, VERY Right! And each change up shifts the presentation enough for a new and exciting period of deep and enjoyable listening...a musical experience that opens a new depth of enjoyment, partly due to the new awareness it sparks into the inner qualities of the music!

The penny has recently dropped for me that the used tube figures, ie 90/88 is the condition of the two halves of the stereo tube, and not some kind of overal score system which had me puzzled.  :) ( Funny `cause I studied valve cicuits at tech college, but it was that time when transitors and chips had precedence) Thankfully the used tubes I`ve bought are within a couple %.
Given the price differences between NOS and used tubes is there a cut off % figure beyond which you wont buy because of channel imbalance or you know your`ll hear the difference. Syd ..ps there have been and still are lots of t/funken au7/ax7`s on fleabay.

I understand why will likes to keep rolling tubes. But I like to stop when I have a set that works best for most of my sources and recordings and just then swim in the music in that pool of sound.

It fascinates me how the input tube and rectifier tube interact, that seems to be the key to the whole game to me, with regulation tubes being important afterwards. I settle on an input tube and then work to find a rectifier that best complements it. I've really run into something that I hadn't expected rolling tubes in the CSP2+: one 5Y3GT sounds head and shoulders more "right" than others, or 5U4G types, the Valve Audio 274B (probably my least favorite of those tried) etc. Will be interesting to see how my other 5Y3GT tubes on hand sound in my upcoming ZP3.

Well, it's also the tube that the webpage says this preamp is designed around, which means it would be the tube I'd most be inclined to use. 5U4G and 274B seem to exaggerate image and sound stage in this preamp. I'm not into that. They also don't seem to have the tonal accuracy I want, which may be ic and pc related as well.

What gets me is that one particular tube clearly outshines the other 5Y3GT tubes I have. I've had it a long time, still has plenty of juice. I'm hoping to keep it in use a long time.