Donnie, sorry, in the flurry of activity on this thread I forgot from your first post that the test file was the same. What I gather is that it is likely micro timing stuff (jitter from the computer clocking the ZDAC) and noise from the computer that degrades the sound. But I have to say, I have forgotten most of what I have read about that pesky clocking stuff.

I can definitely say that I hear differences between the Macs I have tried, also the USB cables I have used, between different feet under the Mini, between different software players, between different firewire drives for source files, even subtle differences with different firewire cables, and all with the exact same error corrected and uncompressed files!

Additionally, my Music Fidelity V-Link is an async device that is supposed to take over the timing and solve a lot of jitter. And I like how it improved my sound. But here is the catcher....a lot of folks say that the USB cable matters not as long as the 1s and 0s are delivered accurately, because the async takes over the timing organization from the computer. But I hear a difference between my Wireworld Starlight, and my DbAudioLabs Essential USB cables with or without the V-Link async in the mix. Go figure. The difference was greater without the V-Link though, and I had no doubt that the Starlight was worth $89 to me over the standard USB cable that came from my drawer.

So I would say yes, it would be relevant to try a Starlight USB cable. It is 89 for a 1/2 meter. You can get a 30 day trial here http://www.tweekgeek.com/Audio-Cables/USB-Cables/  Could be good to ask Mike about how the Furtech or the less expensive Ultraviolet compare too. He is a smart and accomidating guy.

I think the idea is that by distinctly separating the data from the power and ground, your data goes through better and with less noise from the computer and from other electronic noise passing to the DAC. This is apparently the a big part of highend USB cables, and the wireworld cables take care of some of this problem in a relatively inexpensive way.

Can't answer on the cloud, but it seems like a lot of bandwidth for daily use!

Another thing that may be at play here is that if your computer for whatever reasons might be truncating the data via how it processes the WAV files. If so, that is a done deal when it leaves the computer even with the best USB cable out there. This is out of my range technically, but I have heard that this can explain part of why good ears with good gear may not hear the difference between cables....that the data is already missing stuff before the cable.

Have you hunted around in your control panels and properties for all the audio settings in your software and in your computer? If you can find everything that has to do with the audio output to USB and set it to do basically nothing...no increase or decrease in bit rate or sampling (set it for 16 bit/44K), no EQ or other processing....if not already set this way, this will give you a sense of what your computer's potential with the player you are using and the cable you have. In my Mini, I have a lot of system stuff cut off, disconnect the net and bluetooth....basically make it do as little as possible other than passing the music as is. Then I have Hog mode with PureMusic that robs computer resources for the player when it is on. This all helps the computer sound.

beowulf, no bad at all! It's a changing landscape, and Apple has not fully eliminated all DRM. There are still some legacy tunes—or at least I believe so—where some DRM constraints may be on files available in certain jurisdictions. And of course, movie/TV rental is inherently a kind of DRM. What a lot of folks don't realize is how rabidly Apple has pursued DRM elimination, but as a market leader, it had to do so transparently with all the labels with which it had relationships, and in a bit of a balancing act with the rights owners. Google and Amazin have been somewhat more cavalier about that issue, but in the end, no one has been able to lawfully ignore DRM as a distribution obstacle, and neither Google nor Amazon has been near as successful. And sometimes this can seem like a one-step-forward-two-steps-back process. But I still think we have seen amazing progress. We use the iiTunes Store at home mostly for video and kids' iPod music. I do not use it for my music server source. But as Apple keeps creeping to higher quality downloads, with cloud backup and distribution, it actually helps anyone who cares about digital music access. Folks like iTrax and HDTracks will not move the needle on bandwidth expansion. Services like iTunes, video calling, Netflix, erc., can make that difference. We are living in amazing times when we can watch these changes right before our eyes.

Lon, I went ahead and ordered the PW DAC w/ Bridge. Note that it is the Bridge that contains the Digital Lens, the specific technology that ensures the output of files matches the original input. The Bridge is not just for Internet or streaming but is for all practical purposes a requisite for proper playback of files delivered by anything other than a transport.

Bur I am concerned about how it will interface with the Ultra. We shall see.

That's an important clarification, that the Transport does indeed have the Lens. PS Audio has been dangling the prospect of a standalone lens for years, like its progenitor the Genesis Digital Lens. But I have a suspicion that a standalone lens undercuts the market value prop of the PWT just a bit too much. I could be completely wrong, but it makes sense to me, especially given how the Genesis remains one of the most sought after devices, and it is old and outdated. GDLs listed on fleabay or AudioGon typically last less than 30 minutes.

The combo of the Lens and Native Mode (whether you get it from the Transport/DAC combo or the DAC/Bridge) strike me as being as close to getting digital outputs aligned with analog inputs as we can for at least the next 18-36 seconds, er,r months.  

This  answered some of my questions.
It looks like I'm not getting the resolution that I thought out of my computer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu_2EBnM4sI&feature=player_embedded

Maybe. With the Bridge in the $700-800 range, I am not sure there is much need to reduce price by $300 with a lens-only add-in. I could be wrong, but it would seem a fragmentation of the value box. Still, I do believe that a standalone Lens would sell well.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the unit. My only, and very modest, gripe about it right now is that I have to pull some Cat5 cable for it.

Will, I have a bunch of flac. files with much higher sampling rates than 44.1.K But if my computer/ DAC combo doesn't  pass it through I've been wasting my money. I have one monstrous file (1.4GB) of SRV's "Soul To Soul" recorded at  192K that it loks like I am passing at best at 88K. Oh well I'm learning.....

Great, you should have it by next weekend. Don't forget to put on your white gloves (provided in the box).

Quote:


Donnie, Don't lose hope!

I am running all 44.1 and getting awesome sound, as are many others. Though there is definitely merit to high res files...more information, you can get kickass sound from 16/44.1. The dB Audio folks have some very interesting discoveries on this....

As I understand it, their testing method is several engineers doing double blind testing as they sort out parts and the best possible synergy. Looking for a neutral analog sound, Master tapes are referenced. After some time, one aspect of the study seemed to become not getting caught by "the current belief" and remaining open to whatever works even if it does not necessarily make sense with current thought. It was in this sort of exploration that they arrived at their DACs and how they came to using a tweaked out Mac as a file source, while discovered tweaks for the computer in the same way.

Anyway, in these many many many tests they arrived at NOS DACs....16/44.1 period...no async...no high res...no upsampling. While the Tranquility evolved, their findings were that there is much more smooth information on 16/44.1 than was generally thought. All kinds of pointers to fine information showed up, obvious inner detail, and very fine ambient information, but also in nuance of voices and instruments as they became more fleshed out...and without digital hardness, instead with an analog liquidity. The Tranquilities can play high res files but not at high res in the DAC. In the end DbAudioLabs (and many serious audio heads out there) found that the Tranquility sounded better to them than a lot of big name, very good hi res and async DACs, including Ayre, Wavelength, Wyred, PS Audio, Peachtree.....

Of course this is a taste thing, but there are some pretty heavy listeners out there using the Tranquility which makes no sense within the async/high res mindset.

They kept working on async too, and referencing some mainline popular players with async and high res, but still thought their NOS DAC sounded better so stuck with it.

Not to say that the Tranquility is the end all, just making the point that some serious designers and listeners believe these guys have made an amazing discovery....that there is a lot more to 16/44.1 than was thought. And so much so that even in the async/high res belief system of todays market, they they held to this very unpopular approach believing thier sound is better, and from the lowly 16/44.1K files.

The thing is, this is a similar process Steve used to create your ZDAC, mod and listen, mod and listen for forever. So if you are not getting amazing sound, I would say it is not the DAC.

I just did some testing and though I have been using the V-Link, I tried just my wireworld cable in the ZDAC on its own. It sounds awesome. The V-Link pulls more micro detail (also, according to the Mini audio out, with toslink out, the V-Link can go to 96K as opposed to the ZDAC USB 48K, and probably the same with your laptop) but just the ZDAC with a good cable fed by the tweaked Mini is beautiful. The DbAudioLabs Essential USB cable takes it to another level, but the Wireworld Startrlight sounds really good. And I have the same amp and speakers you have though I have modded my MGs, and use a tweaked out Mini playing with PureMusic.

will wrote on 09/11/11 at 23:43:57:


Yes will, my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC has the "native" function and also allows many oversampling settings and different filters and in almost every case the "native" format is the best sounding to me. This is true for Redbook, for 48kz video broadcast and discs, and the few higher resolution recordings I've been able to play via DVR in wav format. (There's an auto setting that uses what I find the best apodizing filter choices for the file formats and native form, so I use that 99 percent of the time).

I have faith Donnie that you'll find the settings to get your PC sound to be all it can be.

Well, the PerfectWave is a versatile tool. And an expense!

I really haven't much in the way of hirez nor do I seek it out. But I really really enjoy having my Blu-Ray and DVR run through the whole system. There's some wonderful sound associated with that. Yesterday I was watching the NYPO doing An American in Paris on PBS and the sound was stellar!  It's hard to leave the house sometimes. . .

Quote:


I think this is correct. Not sure where the downsampling happens, but by reports the HiRes files sound really good on the Tranquility. And buying HiRes for a NOS player is likely not the best idea.

Greg, Have you ever listened to your HiRes files at 44.1. Not that you would necessarily want to, but I wonder if they sound better than Redbook since they start with so much more data even if not played at their native res. The PerfectWave might be a great unit to try this....just for fun.

If and when anyone else decides to take the plunge that Lon did with his PerfectWave Combo, or that I did with the PW DAC, make sure you do your research. Most dealers sell these at retail, though occasionally some well-known dealers like Music Direct will feature a combo pricing, or sweeten the price with extreme discounts on really high-end PSA cables (I think Lon can attest to that).

In my case, I found a number of deals in various places, some of which featured full USA warranty, and some that are likely gray market. In any case, the PSA PW DAC/Bridge combo normally retails for $3699-$3799, and I was able to glom on to a really good deal, in which I saved well over a grand. Good deals are out there, and when one factors in upgrade paths, the likelihood of PSA PW upgradeability, and the ability of Decware Zen amps to reveal improvements in your system, I recommend considering the investment.

Cheers!

In case anyone remains interested, there is an excellent deal on the PW Transport on eBay right now, with a starting bid of $1600 and a BIN of $1999. It's new, and black. I chose silver for my DAC/Bridge, so I wouldn't be interested in this one, but it looks like a heckuva deal. You could easily spend more on any one of a number of disc players and get much less. It's here.
Cheers!

Absolutely, a step into the PW Transport is an implicit commitment to either eventually get a PW DAC , or to already havie a great one.

Undertaker, what are you using to:
(1) what format are your files in;
(2) what do you use to play the music (iTunes or Amarra or Fieelia or Audirvana, etc.);
(3) how are you getting your music out of your machine, e.g., USB, Toslink, etc.;
(4) what DAC are you using;
(5) did you run your MacBook Pro on battery, and did you also tweak the system to strip it down to as basic of an audio player as possible; and
(6) which MBP, and what processor was in the MBP versus which mini and which processor?

All those factors are more likely to make a difference than simply switching between the MBP and the mini. The current MBP actually is a more solid piece of aluminum and is certainly built with low-heat, low-power components. I have owned each generation of both for the last few years, and it would be necessary to equalize them before concluding tha one is better than the other. BTW, I prefer the mini, too, but largely because in my office rig, I like to use a separate screen. Conversely, I am aware my use of BT keyboard and trackpad introduce some possible issues, bu I am unwilling to sacrifice their convenience. At home' I have now dispensed with the Mac altogether, except as an iTunes management device for the home library.

Cheers!

Pale, Will,
I'm pretty sure that Undertaker is just a spammer trying to get us to hit his link. Bastards, I say we hunt him down and shoot him. But that may be a little harsh.

Thanks for the clarification Will. My apologies for my confusion.

I agree the 2010 mini is a very nice server, probably better than a 2007 MBP.

Greg

Glad it's there, set up and works. Give it about three weeks or more and it will really sound fantastic.