Hey All,
I had similar results from my TORII at first...bass heaviness and density, clogged, and then open mids and highs...the usual. But it was also detailed and open at times with beautiful full bass, and at other times very nice in the mids and highs but too thick in the low and mid bass. And it was always too bassy for me on certain recordings. But when it sounded "right" it sounded so amazing it easily kept my interest in refining the room and synergy of the gear so that I could fully experience the amps potential.
So I will write some about my experiences just in case any of you find the amp still too heavy after burn in.
At first I thought that tube folks desire for deep bass and weight had been solved to such a degree with this amp and that the usual desire for "warm" and bassy tubes preferred for most tube amps did not necessarily fit, at least for my tastes, in my room. So I started looking at tube recommendations differently, with transparent being foremost for me. But I think this is probably my preference anyway.
I also proceeded to find that everything made a notable difference with this amp. It seems like a hybrid horse with every aspect of it tweaked to high performance, but making it demanding in certain settings. Interconnects, all the tubes, and the other usual suspects.....speakers, power and speaker cables, AC power and so on, all make a big difference.
The first thing I noticed is that Decware interconnects contributed to this intense bass, and when I put in some Braided silver Mac cables I got cheap on Audiogon, though less harmonically rich, it made the bass tighter and less intense.
For tubes, NOS 6DJ8s were generally my favorite for input contributing to a sweet yet more open midrange than many 6922s, and generally less dense in the bass, though I liked some 6922s too. But more importantly, if the low and mid bass density does not smooth out to satisfaction with burn in, try OB3s and OC3Ws for regulators. I use Sylvania OC3Ws and Sylvania OB3s, as they are both very nice sounding, warm tubes without building too much low density and having a nice open midrange.
I found these things before getting the room more fully together. I realized that what I had done room-wise with my SE34I.2+ and MG944s was not enough for this amp, so I talked to Steve about it and he helped me figure out how to make good bass traps. I had been studying about room modes anyway adding subtle improvements little by little, but the TORII (in my room) pretty much demanded it, so getting serious about low and mid bass traps made a big difference. During that same time, while waiting for fiberboard to come, on ZYGI's advice I played with the space between the plinth and the passive radiator on the MG944s ending up with about 1/4 instead of the stock 3/8's spacers.
The Torii just had so much bass potential that room modes that barely showed up with my SE34I could get bad, especially with certain material. This was not the case for Lon though, if anything, his room tending to "suck the bass out" a bit if I recall correctly. And I trusted Steve's experience too and he had no bass problems in his room. So since mine was too bassy, while my only other references were not, this helped me see that my room needed more work.
Finally, I got more serious about vibration with a bunch of Herbiesaudiolab stuff and now with room and vibration together, I can use a great range of tubes and have the Decware interconnects back in, but I still prefer OC3W and OB3s and rarely use the stock OA3s. The OA3s sound really good, as do the rest of the stock tubes, I just prefer a mix tuned to my tastes more. Again, this may just be me and my room though.
I like Groove tube (#7) and cryo'd Tungsol EL34s better too, for my tastes and system synergy being more balanced across the spectrum than the Winged C's….the tungsol being tighter and perhaps more defined and the Groove tubes being rich, but still clean and not syrupy. They may be a bit lean though in Steve's or Lon's systems...who knows. And 50s RCA 5U4G's are great, with tight and strong bass and balanced midrange with open highs.
I ended up with a ZDAC front end with a Mac running error corrected uncompressed data through USB. Then I got the Z-STAGE. The Z-STAGE in particular offers great flexibility for changing the sound of the system with one tube having a big impact on the sound going into the TORII. And if you want to lean the low end down a bit for the recording, just lower the volume on the ZSTAGE and raise it on the TORII until you find what makes you happy. Or to give more weight and bass to it, do the opposite...lowering the TORII volume as you up the ZSTAGE.
I was running the braided silver Mac interconnects from ZDAC to ZSTAGE and the Decware interconnects from ZSTAGE to TORII. Now I am burning in some 1/2 meter Decware interconnects between the ZDAC and ZSTAGE so there are two sets of Decware interconnects. It may be too warm and bassy for me, but the jury is still out. I do love the cables, it just may be too much of a good thing for my setup and tastes. Also, I have come to truly dislike burn in. I am too impatient and will be very glad in a week or two when I can really hear these new cables!
But the point is, there are ways to tone down the bass tendencies of the TORII if needed and with the bass and low mids in balance it just sounds absolutely amazing....deep, articulate, moving...very real...almost surreal the music is so present and palpable!
My TORII did settle in after many hours, but I don't think I would have learned just how beautiful a piece of technology it was without it having sort of "forced me into submission" toward getting the rest of my room and gear act together. Now, with the room pretty tame, a great front end, good cables throughout, the very, very nice MG944s, and synergy among the cast of characters, I can only imagine a system sounding better. It really does amaze me.
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Torii breaking in! (Read 23350 times)
