I have a hum-related thread going on the SE84C+ forum, and I've noticed a few similar threads on other forums.

However, in the bigger picture of general hum/noise reduction, I'm just curious if anyone else has employed solutions like isolation transformers, power regenerators (like the PS Audio Power Plant Premier), line conditioners, and the like -- and what your results have been.

And I'm particularly interested in any good bang-for-the-buck solutions.

In fact, I noticed that Steve even mentions the PS Audio unit in his discussion of why the Mini Torii's tube regulation is so useful (on the Mini Torii's web page).

Anyway, any thoughts or suggestions?

Mark Blair
relatively new SE84C+ owner (with just a slight bit of noticeable hum)

Brett -

Very curious to find out if the PS Audio Power Plant Premier makes a significant difference.

And I'm probably not inclined to build my own isolation transformer at this time (which probably explains why I purchased the SE84C+ instead of getting the kit) -- but I'd sure like to know whether it could address my specific hum situation (as described in my thread under the SE84C+ forum).

Mark

Well the Power Premier is certainly a positive influence. Can't find anything wrong with it's effect on the music. Everything it does is for the better. Hum is still there if you listen for it.

I've plugged in my USB to digital audio re-clocker, DAC, and Select. It's fun to think about each piece of gear in the system benefiting from cleaner sine waves.

Naturally a typical piece of audio gear has to have a built in AC to DC converter (Power Supply) so as to be plug and play.

It's an interesting situation where adding this power generator yields a process of converting home AC power to DC to then create new AC power for your gear which then coverts AC back to DC. So even with this added complexity the end result is cleaner.

Thinking about your system in this way leads to concepts of running an all DC system powered off of battery banks stored in the garage to eliminate this AC problem altogether. How cool would it be to have a system where the only existent AC signal was the music?

Here goes trying to explain what I'm hearing...

First thing I noticed is that the music sounds much more hearty and weighted. The bottom end much more present and articulate. this with the added clarity leads one to crank it up and when I did it was surprising how much more volume I could use without it getting brash.

I'm going out on a limb to try and describe the effect it's had on the tone. It feels like the vibrations in the room are gripping more definitely and I can feel myself vibrating. So in other words I can feel the music even in the middle frequencies rather than just hearing it.

Thinking of the music as the super complex air ripples that they are, there is a sense that the peaks and dips of the ripples are sharper and cleaner which in effect has a better hold over the room. Another way to put it is that the system has more speed which has yielded cleaner sonic tones and sense of pressure that is realistic in scale.

It just sounds amazing.

It's interesting to note that the unit has meters for incoming voltage and THD, as well as output.

Last night my house power was running at 120v. This morning it is reading 123v and 2% THD.

It's outputing a steady 120v and .4 THD.

Power, AC and DC have been a fascination for me for decades. I too, have owned numerous power conditioners including PS Audio, Tripplite, Brickwall, and BPT. I've owned them all in separate homes and AC situations. Each has some benefits, but also limitations. But as far as addressing hum problems, n one have had much, if any effect. Using a DC/battery preamp was the best solution that I ever tried. As mentioned before, hum is a local problem associated to a single unit. So many times, it has been a power amp. I know this by disconnecting the input and just turning it on and listening to the hum from the amp. I wish I had some easy suggestions, but usually, I have just replaced the amp. The only other experiment is to remove the earth ground, but I know you have already tried those things...good luck....  :-/

Pale Rider. This makes sense to me. And 4krow, your comments also make sense to me. If you have a ground problem in the amp, good power will help the sound but not fix the hum. Though it can be totally the amp, hum is not always totally, or even partially the amp. It can be the amp's interaction with ground issues with other components, power cables, interconnects, cable layout, or leaked over noise from other appliances, rheostats, computers etc in the circuit or leg of the circuit board, bad receptacles, loose ground connections....or from transformers before your house....lots of stuff can contribute even if you isolate the primary offender as the amp.

Everything I have done to refine the power coming in...hospital grade plug, Alan Maher filters, Brickhouse...have helped lower the hum a bit while improving the "Black" and this is why i have been looking into this subject....not because my hum is intimidating, but because any hum is interfering with the sound.



Pale Rider, check this out http://www.provantage.com/tripp-lite-is500hg~ATRPC00T.htm

I am considering this one...inexpensive and I believe with a 30 day unconditional return, but I will call to corroborate that if i decide to order.

Good Luck!

I've always wondered if the "Transcendent Sound Balanced Power Supply" would improve my system.

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Transcendent_Sound_Power_Supply.ht...

Is it safe to change the neutral line from 0 volts to 60 volts?  

I bought a TrippLite isolation transformer many (>16) years ago and returned it immediately because the transformer hummed REALLY loud.  We tried several and they all made too much noise.

Does TrippLite still have transformer noise problems?

Seank, I haven't done a kit in a while, but your link to the Transcendent came in just in time to keep me from ordering the Tripp Lite. I may still try the TL, since I can send it back, but I am definitely going to try the Transcendent. I am also investigating 4krow's BPT.

Like Will, I don't have a hum "problem." I am just looking for better clarity, blacker black.

I like JLM's comments regarding the quality of power varying from area to area. I'm pretty sure the quality of my power here is much worse than my last home. Since living here my stereo just hasn't been as enjoyable. Adding the power plant has made a night and day difference and I've been reminded why I love this hobby so much. After many days of listening it's still an obvious improvement. My buddy will be asking to have this back pretty soon unfortunately so I'll probably wind up getting one for myself.

I think it did reduce the hum a bit. As others have commented, it will depend on the source of the hum rather having balanced power has an effect. I listen at near field as well, but as I've said elsewhere I've heard a few zen amps and normally they are DEAD quiet. Mine has an issue with the power transformer and it's possible there could be a similar issue with your amp.

Mark,

Volt meters are dirt cheap now, but unless you know you have totally clean power, good ground, cable and all, and if it is over 1.5 mV, I wonder how you can tell if it is the amp or the power, or a combination?

And I know what you mean about not wanting to send your beloved gear in for repair. Have you called Steve? He has been troubleshooting over the phone for years and knows these amps like no one else!

Yes I get it. Sounds like pretty minor hum. Why not test it? If it is under 1.5 mV, you know it is at least acceptable to Steve. Seems like these things are so transparent that minor transformer hum could be easily excited and then very easily heard.

Hope you get more good insights!

And I can tell you that in my experience, Steve is a phone guy if you really want to get up with him. Seems he gets way too many emails to keep up.

Good Luck!

FWIW, my Transcendent Balanced Power Supply kit arrived yesterday. It is an impressive, nicely done kit, with excellent step-by-step color instructions. Does not look difficult at all. Going to tackle it this weekend.

Glad the Premier has been a beneficial addition. I think you'll really like the interconnects. I can't be without them now myself, any other interconnect just doesn't sound 100 percent right. And the speaker cables. . . well they take a very long time, a very long time to burn in completely or at least my pair does. They sound great, but bass shy for some time. But they are without exception the best speaker cables I've ever used and I just love their sound. . . or lack of sound.

Mark,

To be honest the speaker wires sounded as if they were breaking in for over a month in my system, and took even longer to fully flesh out the lower frequencies. That said, they still sounded magnificent as they were breaking in, better than any other cables I've owned, with the sweetest treble I'd ever had, so I was not unhappy to be listening to them break in, was just wondering and hoping the bass would come in and they did. These are the items that took the longest to break in of any that I've ever used. If you look in the thread about them on this forum you'll see my experience chronicled.

The interconnects have a similar break in cycle, but shorter. I think within two weeks they're fully operational and just get better slowly over time. There's a poster here who couldn't bear the sound of them raw and began to like them after a month or two of use in another system. That doesn't exactly match my experience, but they do season well over time.

The other thing to consider is there's no place to hide with these cables if you are feeding them mediocre sound. They're going to show you what you've got.

Quote:

Raduschka, I gotta believe that improving the wiring into that box will be a good thing. If you read Steve's piece about power cords, the thinking of "the more you can do to get your connections 'out of the way,' the better off your sound will be" makes sense. Not sure why TrippLie would go to the trouble of building an iso transformer while fitting it with a crummy cord, though the old free market driver of cutting costs comes to mind.  ;) anyway, is it hard-wired? I am still considering a Tipp Lite. Experiences reported here are mixed, but Steve has recommended them. Which model do you have?

I just finished correcting a builder's error in my Transcendent balanced power supply, and am looking forward to getting my Taboo plugged into it.

...the monster power conditioner comes with a thicker power cord, although not as thick as some of mine. I also built a power cord with vh audio cryo cables, flavour 4 or something like that, I cannot remember. I think I will order some more of that relatively inexpensive high quality copper cable and rewire everything, my brain if only I could, and report back to you
roger and out

Good info Raduschka and Lon. I am looking at one of these two TrippLites in concert with, or to compare with, my Transcendent Balanced Power Supply. Anyone know what real difference is between standard and hospital-grade TrippLites?

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-IS1000HG-Isolation-Transformer/dp/B00008YMZO/re...

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-IS1000-Isolation-Transformer/dp/B00006HPFI/ref=...

Thanks for the links and pics Raduschka. So, at 250W, that's enough, huh? Interesting. My BPS is rated at 8 amps. I think it will be more than adequate for my headphone rig.  ;-)

I plan to swap it in to replace my Monster AVS-2000 and HTS 5100, which. Plan to return to the HT system.

Dr. Frankenstein, eh?

In the photos I saw of tne TrippLite IS1000, the power cord appears robust. I should know in the next few days when mine arrives.

I think this fits here, on the topic of power conditioning:
...I installed a hospital grade outlet in my living room, as the one I was using was remarkably loose. upon inspection, the wires coming out of the wall were completely darkened by decades of unattended existence so I brought their coppery shine back  with a piece of sand paper. Yes, now I have even better sound coming out of my system, easily audible in the bass zone, but the whole sound is more lifelike. Sting-dream of the Blue Turtles MSFL happened to be the cd in the player. Moon over Bourbon street-well, he is right there, on top of the bass and there is a saxophone in the back. "Consider me Gone"-the two notes on the bass, they feel like a real bass guitar being played  now and the percussion is life like. etc etc
I bought a red leviton hospital grade outlet from
frwoodworking on Ebay, for 7$ + 2$ shipping or so. Not the best, but it works for now.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230625178913&ssPageName=STRK:M...