If I were a less tenacious and opinionated person, I might have an easier time with life.

As an example, I believe in Decware and the value that it brings. I live on a few music forums, and there are always people asking for recommendations of affordable amplifiers, preamps, speakers, cabling, etc. I always recommend Decware, because as we all know, Decware is the very definition of bang for buck excellent sound.

More often than not, these recommendations are met with incredulity if not derision.  A surprisingly smaller than one would have found last decade just blow off the whole idea of tubes, as that's old shit that can't be good. But more and more people say "Why buy something like Decware that you never heard of when you can buy this built in Taiwan and China and Korea solid state thing that has a name that most everyone knows?"  I point out that the Decware products are hand-built in the USA and have a warranty that's hard to believe, but get nowhere as people say "why not buy this tube amp from China at half the price it sure looks good on this ebay ad!"

It's frustrating, but I keep recommending Decware as often as I can, and even get labeled a paid representative for Decware sometimes as no one seems willing to believe that anyone could be so passionate about a manufacturer without being paid.

And, I have to say, I'm pretty certain that in the end I've brought a few new persons to Decware.

Anyone else encounter similar resistance, disbelief, ridicule in even suggesting Decware as a quality alternative to the mass brands?

Howdy Lon,

I hear what you're saying .....

The sad thing is that "hearing is believing" ..... at least for many people, and unless a person has heard the difference between a well designed and executed piece of audio gear and the "other stuff" they have no idea what they are missing.

I wish I had a nickel for every person who was a big fan of mid-fi rack systems, B*se equipment or other highly regarded audio gear (both tube and SS) that had a jaw dropping experience while spending a couple of hours in my listening room hearing music through the Decware Select amplifier.

Having said that, I have also seen a lot of folks who just "didn't get it", either because the music was not that important to them or because they simply can't hear .....

Keep fighting the good fight ..... but even if no one else is interested you have the satisfaction of hearing music in a way that puts a smile on your face .....

Best wishes,

Randy

Well, we'll all keep fighting the good fight I guess. I hate being part of an elite.  I want many more to experience this.

And looking at the way that Decware has grown in the last dozen years. . . many more are, one by one.

Keep 'em flying boys!

Great thread Lon. Randy, as you said, they don't get it or can't hear (not a gifted listener as Gizmo would say) and/or MUSIC is just not that important to them.

I keep that in mind when I am enjoying the listening room at 76db SPL average and it actually sounds louder and wet with tone. It takes people like us who actually SIT and listen to music for enjoyment to the soul/core TO seek out products like Steves amps for transparency, timbre and tone to keep US involved in the music while we listen actively.

Most people will never understand that. They enjoy music passively and nothing more and that is ok. We care that a ride cymbal sounds like a ride cymbal............

Stone of Tone

Lon,

Your comment reminded me of something that happened several years ago.  I had not thought about this for a long time .....

Before purchasing the Decware Select amplifier, I owned a rather pricey Audio Research amplifier.  It sounded OK and had enough juice that you could do arc welding with it ..... but the Select put it to shame when it came to making music.

There was a guy I knew from across the river in Cincinnati who would come to visit once in a while to check out "what was new in my system".  He was really into the Stereopile recommended components stuff and thought my AR amp was the bee's knees since it was on the list.  Of course, it probably didn't hurt that he also owned some AR equipment .....

The way I had the system set up at the time, the amplifier was not visible from the listening seat.  I sat the gent down and played a few songs for him through the Select without telling him that there was a new amplifier was in the system.

He had a big smile on his face and stated that "the system has never sounded better".

So ..... I walked him over and showed him the new amplifier.
The blood literally drained from his face .....

We listened to a few more songs and when he was getting ready to leave his comment was "well, that little amplifier sounds pretty good for what it is" .....

The really funny thing was that the speakers I had at the time were a pair of ProAc bookshelves with insanely complex crossovers which did not really let the Decware Select do its thing.

It's amazing the effect that "name recognition" has on the ears of some people .....

Randy

This industry seems to be driven by one name: "Stereophile." It doesn´t take much common sense to recognize that Stereophile´s "hallowed" opinions may be more than compromised by the volume of advertising between its covers. Direct subscriptions are dirt cheap so ad dollars reign supreme. How many of its reviews focus on gear clean of ad dollars and audio dealer markups? I have noticed that after low priced budget components are favorably reviewed, they are invariably knocked down in future follow up issues which point out discovered deficiencies. Rarely is an ultra expensive component from its advertiser list subject to the same scrutiny.
If Stereophile were honest and objective, it would laud the unique lifetime warranty of Decware products as a service to its subscribers. Indeed, I don´t remember reading a single Stereophile article that focused on product reliability or customer service.
The internet has, more than anything else, leveled the playing field by providing recommendations directly from consumers to consumers. I learned about Decware years ago from an audio forum. I called Decware, and much to my surprise, received some great advice from the company president (Steve) over the phone and well...I´ve been hooked on the gear ever since.

Aloha all, I havent been here in a while but I loved this thread and had to comment! I've been building my house which turned into a bigger project AND I have a dedicated listen room.
My addition to Lon's, Randy's and ny's post is that some folks are "inner directed" in that they feel themselves from their own perceptions. More people are "outer directed"-guided by what others say and do.
I'll be back soon. Thanks for still being here.   mike

Lon and Mike-

The author of that cnet article is a contributor to Stereophile, I believe.  So far that guy has had two articles with very positive things to say about Decware, despite the inevitable flame war in the comments.  He seems to be fighting the good fight, and bringing more attention to Decware than anonymous individuals making recommendations in a music or audio forum ever could.  

If the added exposure helps Steve put food on the table and pisses off some obsessive/compuslive jerks, that's great.

Way to go Guttenberg. Recent post too, from Friday. However, per Guttenberg and posts-I hate to see people not trying this Amp or Steve's other Amps because constant high efficiency is stated as so necessary.

Read Randy's post again (reply #8). Ask Lon what he used to listen to his A, B and Select versions with? You can enjoy this Amp and the Select with a 90db sensitivity Speaker, mostly simple crossover, small room at 76db SPL with spectacular results-as I do.

Yes, when you move to a large space per family room size you need a pair of Zu's or RL's. Trust me, I would not be listening to my Select with my Speakers for 10 years come May if it was not something special in my Small Room with Treatments and my Cables. It was no accident; I worked hard to create this true synergy-synergy truly applies here.

However, I have tried other Speakers I own or owned with similar specs to my LS-90's and they sucked with my Select: Paradigm Mon7 V4, Tannoy's from the 70's, Polk Mon12, Polk RTiA1's, Mirage and Parker Crusader's. Actually, the Parkers need the big space and are great in my garage with S-State. They did not have the resolution of my LS-90's with the Zen and they are to dry.

My point simply is: Guttenberg was on point and also likes more power sometimes, to rock out-me too-see below. (However, the MK Torii III can replace my mono blocks soon I hope to do what the Select does for me).

HOWEVER, YOU CAN DRIVE some not so highly efficient designs (Speakers) like I do/still do, Randy did and Lon did, with Decware Amps and of course the Torii MKIII will drive anything. You just have to find the right speakers and use a small room (cubic feet) and listen at normal levels of 76db SPL average.

But, I get it, that 95db at 1 watt 1 meter is needed for a larger space and more SPL etc.....I am interested in the new pair of Speakers Steve is selling in a homemade open baffle! But, make no mistake, I have headroom, resolution and good bass with my current speakers because of set up, the speakers "work", a great front end and Cables I still pack in their Pelican Cases and take to friends and blow there minds on what cables can do (or not do/get out of the way). However, I am moving and will have the opportunity to have my small space and a bigger space to get Steve's new Driver's!

Stone of Tone  8-)


Solid State will never beat my Zen Select for Flesh on Bone Musicality.

But, I do like some butt muscle solid state 2 channel jamin' right?

I picked up a pair mono block Emotiva UPA-1's for my 2nd system within the same room/dedicated listening room. I also run wire out to run a pair of Speakers in the family room too sometimes. Lots of fun!
However, not the musicality as we know and Guttenberg stated too that you get with a/the Decware Amp.

Solid State System:
Denon DCM-290 (Transport)
Acoustic Zen MC2
Dac Magic
Monster M1000 MKIII  IC (from 1993)
Rotel RA-1062 (as Preamp)
Kimber PK10 Palladian (Rotel)
Kimber KCAG
Emotiva UPA-1 x 2
HGA SC-16 Silver Braid to Kimber 8TC
Polk LS90
360 Degree Room treats-dedicated Room

Tube Amp System: (#1 system = 80% of my listening)
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Prophecy Cryo-Silver i2s
Audio Alchemy 3.0 Dac
Kimber Select 1030
Decware Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk LS-90

SB,

I want a chemical analysis of your coffee right now!

No, just kidding. I think you are on to something, especially since I think (as I think you do) the real barrier is just getting people to have an open mind and listen.

Imagine if the Decware Fest were in an advertised, large hall place. I know how impractical and impossible that is, but the key is getting people to hear and to understand that the specs and a lot of 'traditional knowledge" of audio is misleading in regards to the humblest Decware amps.

Decware forum loads as fast as any I visit.

That is a good point about the other forum(s). This is a nice small pond. There's a sister site that Steve has available that I gave up frequenting, and generally just as small a pond. A faster moving board with a larger readership could help. I'm personally maxed out on boards. I also live in a jazz board and the Steve Hoffman forum, the largest and fastest moving board I read and post within. There are a few other Decware users and afficianados there, although there's a lot of misunderstanding about Decware and similar amps as well.

What can you say about this one :

"Decware posts the schematic diagram of their amplifier on their web site. Hmm. Very familiar... Oh, yeah, now I remember! It's a dead ringer for the circuitry found in old console stereo amplifiers from the early 60's. Stuff from Magnavox, RCA, Motorola, etc. Not the top of the line ones, mind you. Those were push pull with reasonable power. No, these amps went into the lower end models. And worse, with no feedback, the damping factor on the Decware amp is going to be really low. So no wonder that it will sound very different from the solid state Bel Canto, and no doubt it will also measure very poorly, with a lot of frequency response variation depending on load, high harmonic distortion, and not much power. Why anyone would buy into these products and then claim to achieve "high fidelity" is beyond me. Sure it can create some kind of "pleasant" effect...or not, depending on how all the variables of amp and speaker match fall into place. But it's a total crap shoot, and I wonder why anyone would want to constantly be fooling around with these anemic devices when high quality transparent amplifiers with consistent performance and reasonable power are easily obtainable. And if your speakers sound "better" with those flea power distortion generators than with a bone fide clean and powerful amplifier driving them, I have one simple solution: get rid of those lousy speakers."

I thought that many of those old console amps were single ended, not push/pull? I do recall that our 1959 Motorola SK32W 3-channel 7 speaker console; Declaration cabinetry by Drexel with Golden Stereo 800 automatic record changer, Golden tone arm, 3 separate amplifiers, 3 separate speaker systems, Golden audio separator, Stereo audio selector panel and tuning eye sounded very nice.

When the mind is closed off and the imagination tamped down by years of propaganda about high wattage, solid state, black box gear it is difficult to conceive of one letting go of these illusions and being open minded enough to listen to some good tube gear.

That said, there is a point in one's audio journey where one would encounter good tube equipment; so there is hope, amid the hatred and vitriol often received in reaction to publishing the virtues of tube gear. Maybe some of these people are not ready to receive such information; that shatters illusions as seemingly solid as the densest matter on earth.

The nay sayers should take note of how fast the used DECWARE gear is gobbled up on Audiogon or the forums.  

I don't have any problem waiting for the pages to load here  --Rivieraranch

Just curious: Do you know Decware's sales numbers on their SET's ?
Wondering how you'd know if sales had "peaked"-- ?
Don

Same here Lon. Started a thread on avsforum.com explaining how Decware Zboxes could be used instead of preamps to control both volume and balance on each dual channel of a 7.1 setup. Audiophiles were wondering how best to set up the new Oppo BDP 95 (audiophile Blue Ray player) to best take advantage of its features (like dedicated studio DACS). Not one response.

I too have had similar experiences in the past however in recent months I've found there to be a far more accepting mentality among those I've come across and mentioned Decware to.

Case in point, I recently took delivery of a pair of new Omen Def loudspeakers from Zu Audio (in for review) and I began breaking them in on my Zen Select (1st generation) and was detailing the experience on another forum and a few different Facebook pages-to my surprise the response was very positive and open.

I know I've turned quite a few people on to Decware in the past few months, I even know one well-known speaker manufacturer who ordered up a Decware amp after I cited it in one of my recent reviews.

I'm proud to be a Decware owner and follower all these years and I think given the current economic times and over stimulation that has plagued the so-called high-end space people are looking for a simpler, Zen, solution.

We talk about recommending this or that, finding the flatest response, with the 'best' cables/speakers/amps etc. We even talk about the importance of room acoustics and what the best time of day might be to listen. Now you don't have to recommend Decware to me, because I am very impressed on many levels about it's performance and the value it has. But no one anywhere will remember that we aren't near perfect ourselves(most of us are over 50 i bet). My point is this; When was the last time you had a hearing test? Almost as important; does mood affect listening? I know that before lunch, my hearing is better, but my mood is not. Is the enviroment you live in(neighborhood) quiet?   And do we make an attempt for those things we can change, to change them? Or do we just look for the next 'miracle capacitor'?    Back to basics i.e. when I started out with this hobby/obsession, I listened on incredibly inferior equipment, and yet those were some of the more memorable times.   No doubt Decware is a fine choice both in value and performance,  maybe we could just leave it at that and enjoy it for what it is, not so much of what it can incrementally become......

"I figure their loss my gain."
--Lacee



"Same here Lon. Started a thread on avsforum.com explaining how Decware Zboxes could be used instead of preamps to control both volume and balance on each dual channel of a 7.1 setup. Audiophiles were wondering how best to set up the new Oppo BDP 95 (audiophile Blue Ray player) to best take advantage of its features (like dedicated studio DACS). Not one response. "
--ny10522




"It's really hard to make that first leap into an SET.
--Lon

"Doesn't Decware (still) have a 30 day return policy?-best audition there is. One's own home, with one's own electronics"
--Doorman

Yes, while I too understand  why the re-stocking fee is necessary, I agree that a 15% charge is a significant pile of dough (sigh!)
It's an increasing problem,ie: how to audition equipment when "traditional" retailers are fast disappearing.
I doubt that Steve get many returns, but there's always that chance buying without hearing---
Best, Don

Guys, I just looked at the 30 day return policy and it is still 10% not the 15% you all have been stating.  This just covers the 4-1/2% when charging a card and the 4-1/2% when writing a credit to a card.

Mac5U....if more people would at least list there city/state info more people might be able to hook up with someone that is pretty close.

Its surprising that the caliber of people I meet through this site, that have come over for a listen, thats if I have what they want to listen to at the time. Unfortunately, I am not able to have every thing here.

ZYGI

Granted I'm new to all of this, but I read all of the misconceptions that Mac reiterates above before buying an SE84C+ and I can honestly say that I have no idea were this stuff comes from. So much so that reading about audio now feels like complete hyperbole and imagination. Either that, or most humans have more acute hearing than me.