Chris from Cobourg, Ontario.  Happy ERR owner and long time lurker making the jump into posting with a big long post…

I’m frustrated with my current amp and am thinking about purchasing one of Steve’s amp’s.  I’ve read Steve's overview on how to decide on one of his AMP's but still have the impossibly open ended question and would like to get people’s opinions regardless.

My goal with my original system was to take advantage of the 80/20 rule and get a decent system without completely breaking the bank.  My system currently includes the:
- Decware ERR’s with Decware cables.
- Project XPression III, with upgraded cartridge and their speed control.
- Oppo BDP 83,
- Logitech Duet via Cambridge Audio DAC (Recordings on 2 Gig redundant drive predominately in Flac)
- I’ve got a Project Headphone amp with a pair of Senneiser headphones only off my digital source.
- My AMP was a Jolida 302A with upgraded tubes.

Listening Room:
Old home with plaster walls and ceiling, 22 ft by 14 ft with the speakers 6 feet apart about a foot out on the 22 ft wall.  9 foot ceiling. Frankly, I’ve got big time echo issues with the room, but that’s another post.

I listen to a wide range of music which I like to think as ever changing.  I grew up with classic rock but love jazz, folk, and blues equally.  What I have found with my current system is that good recordings sound great, while poor recordings (more than expected) sound awful.  I tend not to blast it much I do like to know that I can.

I’m terrible at describing sound but what I like about the ERR’s is with the right recordings I’ve felt the whole “sound stage” thing comes through.  I also like the choice of streamed, OPPO, or vinyl depending on my mood and therefore would like at least two inputs:  one digital and one analog.  One other thing - I’m in a friendly competition with my brother so it’s got to have some “in your face I’m better than you” appeal as well.  Shallow, I know, but it is what it is.

Okay, here’s the question, given my system, given an upper bound on $ being that I just want the best sound for a reasonable buck, which one of Steve’s AMP’s would you suggest?  I am drawn in by the whole SET amp thing but I got to say I do like the Torii III?

Ouly,

I have to concur with Lon.  I own the Torri MKII and am completley blown away with it.  I had ordered the HDT speakers last year with getting into SET at some point in the future my primary goal.  Then Steve offered up the MKII's at a bargain price in preps for introducing the MKIII.  I had been considereing the MKII a little up to that point, and just couldn't pass up the offer.  Although I still havn't heard a SET amp, I do not believe that I am missing anything with the Torri.  I like the extra power available (I do like to crank it up occassionly, but I have never had to use any more than a third of the available power as indicated by the volume control setting).  I only had the turntable and CD player to tie into the Torri, so the two inputs were all I needed.  

I can't speak as to speaker placement with the ERR's, but like Lon, the closest point to the walls of my HDT speakers is about 3 foot from side walls and about 5 feet from the back wall (wall behind speaker).  I love the imaging, but I do often wonder if my soundstage could be improved upon by the ERR's.  I aslo needed some wall treatments, and will add my comments to your post regarding the room treatment question once posted.

Good luck with your decision.

bill

Personally I think 22 x 14 is NOT a little listening room and that the Mini-Torii is likely to run out of steam. That's my estimation.

Thanks everyone.  The Torii was probably my first choice and I think you've pretty much confirmed what I was thinking.

I do pull the speakers out from the wall from time to time but my wife keeps pushing them back in.  It's like our own little exercise routine.  

Now all I have to do is figure out how to explain the need for a new amp to her.

Thanks again.
Chris.

I already used that approach to get my original amp.  She's on to that trick.  I tried to attach a picture for the hell of it.  Hope it shows up.  Not the best set up but I like it.  I wasn't done finishing the room yet.

I just placed my order for the MK3!

Thanks again.
Chris.

Chris,

Lon and Bill are absolutely right. The Torii will blow you away. These 2 guys helped me make the same decision back in December and I have not been disappointed!

Neil

Ross,

 I don't think bass would be an issue, as I have none, and I do like my bass. I haven' used a sub in at least 5 years and haven't even given it any thought.

In Doug from Illinois review,  a long time Ohm user, kind of tells it all with out saying it. Ohm's do have a bit more bass than the ERR's. At least at first listen they do. With the extra bass the Ohm's do present, they lack the articulation the ERR's bring to the table. Even for movies, I would swear I have subs. Not enough to shake the house, but enough to make you take notice.

I haven't heard the ERR's with the Torii-MK-III. I do know the Mini Torii sure makes them rock and the bass is  good, real good with this little amp and Zenstyx driving the ERR's. The Zenstyx made a huge improvement to both the bass and detail without ill effect anywhere else.  I will be hearing the ERR's with the Mk-III for the first time at Decfest in a few weeks. I will report back after the fest.

zygi

Ross, I've never heard ERRs, yet, but I have the IT Radials, and the MK III, and it's the best amp/speaker combination I've ever had.  I think the MK III would be a great pairing for almost any speaker around.  If your room allows, you'll have bass.  As Zygi mentions, the ZenStyx (like the Decware interconnects) really help with clarity and extension and an integrated swift bass.

As for volume control, I listen to cd, digital cable TV, and DVD/Blu-Ray all using the MK III and IT Radials. I have two sources coming into the MK III (cd/SACD into one input, the ZDAC-1 feeding output from the DVD/Blu-Ray and DVR into the other input) and do not use a remote to adjust volume. I control volume on the MK III. Works very well for me. . . . If this won't work for you and your wife, you would have to use a preamp or processor front end with remote volume attenuation.

Thanks Lon and Zygi

Lon, you have a really nice system..  

I'm curious.  You said that your IT Radials and the MKIII are the best speakers you've ever heard.  What have you compared them to?  I assume the ERR's are even better?

I would have to have volume controll via a remote so I would require a preamp.  If I do that would I leave the volume on the MKIII or Mini Tori on full volume?  

I'm also wondering about tube life never having owned tubes.  Zygi says he uses a SS amp for TV and movies but I would prefer to just keep it simple and use the tubes for everything.  How long can you expect them to last running them say 10 hours daily?  

I was never inclined to go a tube amp and wondering if I'm going to far with this.. Seems there's a more potential for problems with tubes.  I desire a warmer more organic presentation, than what I have, and feel the ERR's have the potential to fill the room better (holographic) for movies and music than anything I've looked at.  I only want a two channel system and no subs..

I would love to come to the decfest but I live on the oregon coast and that would be a serious trip.  My wife does not share my enthusiasm for Audio.

Thanks for the responses.  -Ross

Thanks Lon for the great reply..

Sounds like the MK III is probably the best pairing for the ERR's.  The mini Tori also seems like it does a acceptable job and would draw less amps plus have fewer tubes to replace in the long run..

Remote volume control is, I agree, not the best setup as it would put another device in the chain but I've remained married for 40 yeas because I've made some compromises..  

A wise old saying:

"A happy life is a happy wife"

If I go with the radials I will audition them first with my Ayre AX-7e.  It is a wonderful small integrated amp designed by Charles Hansen.

Thanks, Ross

Sorry to hear about your loss Lon...

Thanks for all you're information it's incredibly helpful when making audiophile decisions to hear what users have and feel about their systems.

Thanks, -Ross

Ross,

I have to concur with Zygi on the ERR's. I like a lot of bass and the ERR's combined with my Torii MK 2 do NOT fail to please me. I have my speakers positioned about 2 feet out from the wall ( as far as my wife will allow). It seems that the further they are located away from the wall, the more bass response there is...

nsj

Hopefully you can bring your amp, that is the easiest way to get a handle on the sound of the speakers with the amp.  Then there's the room to consider, and program material. . . . If you want symphonic levels for Beethoven, or Whiskey A Go Go levels for The Doors, well. . . you may wish you had more "headroom". . . . If you have more quiet intentions I think you'd be "okay" (but I would suspect in the future you'd get the restless "hmmmm. . . I wonder"s. . . . .

But talking to Steve, especially with the amp at Decware, is your best resource.  Just my two centavos.

I realized I was negligent in providing feedback on my own thread.  

In a nutshell I am very happy with the MK3.  I couldn’t do a back to back listen against the Jolida because I got rid of it before I received my MK3.  To my ear I would say it’s a very natural clean sound.  I tend to compete with my brothers on our stereo systems and they were all impressed by the MK3 with the ERR’s.  

In the thread above people questioned the bass.  I’m terrible with describing sound but my take would be if you mean bass as in an reproducing the sound of a bass instrument then I think it’s top notch.  When showing off the system I sometimes use Bella Fleck’s Sinister Minister which is pretty heavy on the bass and as I said everyone seems to be impressed.  I do use it as a home theater system but my goal of putting the system together was 100% for music.  The MK3 with the ERR's aren't the sort of system that will rattle your fillings while watching sci-fi movies but that wasn't my goal.

I love my little squeezebox Duet as well.  I like the remote with volume control and the ability to shuffle and do playlists.  For day to day listening I use the squeezebox.  I use my Oppo less and less but I still like to have it for other formats.  If I’m feeling really groovy I tend to pass over the Oppo and turn to vinyl.  Sqeezebox, Oppo, vinyl - all 3 sever a purpose and I’m happy to have the choice.

One last intangible thing that I didn’t count on.  Compared to the Jolida, I “feel” the build quality in the MK3.  It gives me a comfortable feeling that I just didn’t get with the Jolida.  With the Jolida I was blowing tubes, a set of inputs stopped working, always biasing and re-biasing.  When I turn on my system now it makes me happy whereas before I was always fiddling around with things and afraid of the next issue.