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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
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Message started by Steve Deckert on 11/15/22 at 22:06:04

Title: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/15/22 at 22:06:04

No longer able to reliably secure Russian 5U4G tubes, we are now having our own made custom for Decware.

These 5U4G tubes were custom made to match the specifications of RCA 5U4G - ST bottle rectifier tube with the ribbed plates. We prefer getters on the bottom so that the top of the tube remains clear allowing you to easily see the heaters glow. We also specified black bases and thicker glass. These are custom manufactured for Decware by a Chinese factory called LINLAI.

Some background on LINLAI...

Psvane is derived from Shuguang. LINLAI™ is derived from Psvane. It is no surprise to see some similarities across their tube offerings, since the engineers are hopping from one employer to another. However, each brand has its own core offering.

Shuguang is dominant in the entry level tube segment serving the Hi-Fi tube amp manufacturing wholesale market and guitar amp wholesale market. However, Shuguang has been in shutdown mode since 2019 with the sale of its urban land to real estate developer, and new factory relocation / re-opening in Jan 2021 hasn't been confirmed. Will Shuguang return to tube production? This is a question to be answered and no one knows answer, since Shuguang is Chinese state owned.

Psvane has been active in Hi-Fi tube market and now is moving into producing small signal tubes (12AX7, 12AU7 etc) that fills the demand from the wholesale guitar amp market that left open by Shuguang. This diversification is likely to distract some of Psvane’s focus from the upgrade Hi-Fi tube market.

LINLAI™ – As a young and upcoming brand, but not new to high end tube design and production, is exclusively focusing on Hi-Fi market. It has introduced two innovative series – Elite E-series with “Moly plate” for ultra high end, and the other DG-series with “Overhung filament” structure for the affordable yet high performance segment. Sonic feedback from early adopters has been very positive, let alone its competitive pricing compared to other Chinese tube brands. LINLAI™ has successfully cannibalized into Psvane and Shuguang’s market share in domestic China. LINLAI™ also produce a range of black bottle tubes, and WE replica tubes.

-Steve Deckert

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Lon on 11/16/22 at 00:55:05

https://www.decwareproducts.com//product-page/russian-5u4?utm_campaign=bbe4740e-c455-4237-a085-77cdac1c3aea&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=90f0f88b-78a0-42c3-a87d-a3cb1ed45740

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by michaelG on 11/16/22 at 15:35:32

It looks good! It ‘s great to see that Decware is carefully selecting / designing or building every part of their products with so much attention.
Will this tube be sent with all Decware amps?

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by tempest62 on 11/16/22 at 21:30:18

Beautiful tube Steve!

Good choice by using the tried and true RCA specs.

Let’s hope your business relationship with Linlai isn’t defecated upon down the road if and when the Chinese communist party decides to ramrod the company right into the ground and completely blank up everything, just like everything communism touches.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Showme on 11/16/22 at 22:47:45

CCP, nuff said. Thanks for being forth coming with the origin.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Kamran on 11/17/22 at 04:01:35

Congrats Steve—great move, this. What about offering a cryo option through Don—to get the full Decware endorsed treatment! It would be compelling to some customers to pay a little extra and have it delivered fully treated vs. receiving it and then arranging shipping to Cryotone. Just a thought.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Dr3wman on 11/17/22 at 04:04:26

Really looking forward to having some Decware brand tubes in my Torii! Fun to see Decware evolving.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Paul2 on 11/17/22 at 20:13:23

Timely this!

It just so happens that three new rectifiers are needed here. A telephone call is in order.

It would be nice if Decware were able to have all the tubes that are normal complement for our amps.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by EdwardT on 11/18/22 at 00:59:41

Mine arrived today. The first hour has it adding a bit of warmth compared to the oem CSP3 rectifier; time burning in will give a better perspective. Physically it’s a very nice bottle shape and the gold logo adds a wee dash of panache.
Material played: tracks 2-4 Joshua Tree (30th anniversary release)

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Tommy Freefall on 11/18/22 at 15:59:59

Steve, ballpark what is the estimated lifespan of these rectifiers?

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by safebelayer on 11/22/22 at 17:54:37

Cryotone offers a 5u4gb tube (https://www.wathenspeakers.com/store/p18/5U4GB-WC.html) for $156. That's 3 x Steve's price ... hardly a little bit more.

Lon, if a government messes with a company's business, which in turn messes with quality, that is audio related. Brad stayed within the lines. I think we can show a little, very little in this case, resilience.

Steve, thank you for obtaining a reasonable source for quality tubes.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by jec3504 on 11/22/22 at 20:23:36

Brads post would have saved me some $$$

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by MikeinMontana on 11/23/22 at 20:51:33

it snowed yesterday. If I can get my gd hands on my order before I die...I'll be all set! For real. :) Now on for a great Thanksgiving!. [smiley=icqlite20.png]

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by tempest62 on 11/23/22 at 21:05:13

Hey brother Mike,

Give it hell!

Happy Thanksgiving to you 🍺

Brad

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by safebelayer on 11/23/22 at 23:51:14

Hey Mike,

What part of Montana are you living? I spent a fair amount of time in and around Missoula while my son went to college there.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by safebelayer on 11/23/22 at 23:54:05

By the way, the LINLAI tube is available thru eBay and other sources. The bottom getters are not unique to Decware, fwiw. I found the same tube for $27. Steve's testing process aside, that's a notable savings for a rectifier tube.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Rivieraranch on 11/26/22 at 13:28:38

It seems that DECWARE laid down the specifications for these, including thicker glass, copying the RCA 5U4G. I am sure that he required them to be designed to have a decent life span and sonics as well. Otherwise why put the DECWARE name on them?

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Paul2 on 11/26/22 at 15:04:04

Got three of em for the CSP and UFO's.

Very happy that I did!

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by safebelayer on 11/26/22 at 16:02:47

Paul, what rectifier tube did you have previously?

What do you like about these better than the others?

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Paul2 on 11/26/22 at 17:37:42

Safebelayer,

You made me drag out the old tubes.

My preowned UFO's came from two different places and I had no idea how old the tubes were. One was a Valve Art 274B and the other Electron 274B.

The interesting thing to me was that I had to turn down the volume on one amp as it was much louder now. Tubes matter I guess.

Now to find two matched sets of EL84's and two of the tiny tubes.

Thanks for asking.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Lon on 11/26/22 at 17:51:34

Wow, good move! Though those two rectifiers are probably very similar, possibly made in the same factory, new rectifiers can make a profound difference in sound, and the sound should be more balanced as well.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Paul2 on 11/26/22 at 18:32:36

Many folks may feel that my kit is "Mid-Fi". But, I have listened to some very well regarded systems and this one sure sounds like it is in the ballpark.

After many years of taking advise from others on tweaks, modifications and the "gizmo of the month", with no real improvement on sound I'm very cautious.

A very nice man sold me the PS Audio DAC. It has proven to be the best DAC I have purchased to date. The UFO amps beat anything I have owned.

Right out of the box these new rectifiers sound excellent to these ears!

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Lon on 11/26/22 at 19:07:29

Paul, with that DAC and those amps and good tubes you are not in "mid-fi" land! ;) You have some very good gear, enjoy the sound!

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Lon on 11/26/22 at 19:35:43

PS: I can help you with some tubes if you want to PM me. I gotta lotta.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by chapsjon on 11/26/22 at 20:02:50

Many might consider my set up mid-fi too, if this is based on entry price. If your system sounds good to you and makes you happy, who cares what some "expert" declares to be hi-fi?

I am sure there are things I could do to make my room sound better, but I am very pleased with my sound overall. I enjoy listening to music on it and think it sounds pleasing. Glad your system sounds good to you!

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by safebelayer on 11/26/22 at 20:04:25

Paul,

Very nice system you have. Mid-fi means nothing other than some neophyte thought a certain amount of money is needed to have excellent sound reproduction. NOT TRUE.

I would encourage you to speak with Lon about tubes. Your signal/preamp tubes will make a tremendous difference. That said, I would stay away from the mediocre red tip Russian stuff Steve sells. There are a lot of Russian tubes out there from reputable sellers. Personally, I would check out the amperex 7308 tubes and military 6922. Contract this seller, he usually has more tubes in stock. https://www.usaudiomart.com/userfeedback.php?user_id=41763. My opinion.

Regarding rectifier tubes, you replaced junk with some good tubes. Once again, the valve art tubes Decware sells have a long history of poor quality. For all you that had good experiences, I said, long history, not, all of them suck.

There are some outstanding nos Russian 5u4g types that are excellent. The European gz32/34 tubes are excellent as well. These can be notable more expensive these days. The Russian counterparts from the 70s-90s are nearly or as good depending on one's system. Personally, I do not like the RCA rectifiers, as I find them to be a bit veiled...in my system (2018 Torii mkvi, 25th anniversary mods, nos Svetlana 6550, nos Mullard 6922/6dj8, nos Svetlana 5u4 equivalents, nos Mullard cv4080, nos Sylvania JAN OA3.

I run both vinyl and digital rigs and tower speakers.

Have fun with the tube rolling.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Lon on 11/26/22 at 20:24:53

Personally I think those red-tipped tubes from Steve are the best of the type, and if partnered with a brighter rectifier can sound very good in the Zen amps. I find the 5R4 type a good match. To me it's all about the whole complement.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Dr3wman on 11/26/22 at 20:32:41

It is amazing for me to read how much influence various tubes can have on the character of your amp. Lots of experimentation in my future it seems.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Paul2 on 11/26/22 at 21:00:38

I thank everyone for their encouragement and help.

I feel very fortunate to have the items here. Most is preowned by others but it is all loved in this house.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/27/22 at 01:13:03

I have created a new board called OFF TOPIC POSTS. I have set it up as a catch all for moderator deleted posts. In testing it, I marked all the off topic posts in this tread and hit delete expecting them to go into the new board. They did not. Because I am the administrator they did not move to the new board but were actually deleted. Apparently only the moderator can use this function but we will find out as further testing takes place.

I am also deleting the rule about politics. Simply those posts, or conversations that are off topic will be moved by the forum moderator to the OFF TOPIC board where they can still be read and replied to. If someone deliberately starts a thread specifically about politics, the entire thread will be moved to the OFF TOPIC board because the topic of this forum is AUDIO.

-Steve

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?board=OFFTOPIC

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by jec3504 on 11/27/22 at 03:08:26

Quote:

That's what got me excited about this thread. Have been extremely happy and thankful with all of Deware's cables and power cords! Also with Steve's vendors. Enjoying all the Lii audio speakers and Cryotone tubes.

safebelayer, To answer your question the picture of tubes I posted are Shuguang Treasures they were in my preamp for months when one day they sound really bad. Replaced them and put them away. Next time I took them out noticed a big crack in the glass. That's why this thread caught my attention. If I knew back when I bought them that Shuguang was state owned would have passed on buying them.

Long story short my friend bought some F15s and a cheap amp from Amazon. Was letting him try out rectifiers he's into my RCA 5U4G. So I shared this thread with him. Trying to get a group to order some Decware amps and get on the waiting list. That let into a discussion that gave me a headache the other night.

Fast forward to today big game, friends over and the topic of this thread came up. Boy what a mess. Not going to share what I think. All I will say is my framed Decware T-shirt was removed from the wall and turned around. Not by me. Man what a headache and a little embarrassing. This was all fueled by outsiders not understanding the "politics" and history of this forum. Going to stop there sorry. My opinions don't mean much. I'm on the live and learn program.

Personal note: To my friends. If you get into Decware great and if you join this forum please don't get political. Veiws, the definition of words and their intent were all posted by other members who are not official spokesmen of the company.

Proudly ordered two of Decwares 5U4G. What's the point of being a greedy capitalist if you can't spend money.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by safebelayer on 11/27/22 at 04:35:56

Yay, Steve. Now we need to reinstate Brad's active status.

Global moderator position should be retired. Thanks for your efforts D.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Lon on 11/28/22 at 14:32:47

Okay Paul2, as I offered I have just packed some tubes up for you that will go in the mail today or tomorrow.

You will have new input tubes you can roll in your amps and preamps, and new output tubes that you can use in both amps (two pairs of the output tubes, same ones that Steve sends with the amps, though not ones that came from him, they were eBay buys).

You will have three European NOS 7DJ8 tubes, two GE "Smokey" 6DJ8, and two 5670 tubes with adaptors. This way you can experiment with different pairs in different positions.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Paul2 on 11/28/22 at 15:28:05

WOW !!

I am going to be just like the big kids.

Really looking forward to rolling tubes. Previously I mainly only changed tubes when one totally failed.

Also, I have had problems with online tube sales as they sent me some that obviously were inferior or just junk. This is why I have been reluctant to try different types.

Thank you

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by safebelayer on 11/29/22 at 01:45:30

Paul, that's a great opportunity.

Lon, 👍👍.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Tooppy on 12/02/22 at 14:24:43

I recieved yesterday this new rectifier tube, it ran all afternoon, straight out it is lovely....and gives the UFO's look the charm it should have. [smiley=icqlite20.png] [smiley=icqlite20.png]

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by joralieu on 12/08/22 at 14:27:35

So would this be considered an upgrade over the psvane that come with my UFO 25? Should I be looking for nos or just buy one of these? I would like to have a spare on hand anyway, an upgrade would be a bonus.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Paul2 on 12/09/22 at 13:47:26

Over one year ago I bought one psvane 274B for the SE34. Paid over $100. from China. After about ten hours I wanted to smash it with a hammer! Just one more bad experience with buying tubes that were recommended by others.

The 5U4G-ST on the other hand were an immediate upgrade "IMO".

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by CAJames on 12/09/22 at 15:19:20

Quote:

Posted by: joralieu Posted on: Yesterday at 14:27:35
So would this be considered an upgrade over the psvane that come with my UFO 25? Should I be looking for nos or just buy one of these? I would like to have a spare on hand anyway, an upgrade would be a bonus.

IMO you are better off with NOS vs current production. Others might disagree.

If you are unsure about how to buy a NOS rectifier here is a helpful thread:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1605822949

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Tony on 12/09/22 at 15:58:11

At the start of this year, I had no experience buying tubes, and I have learned a lot. One of the best sources of tubes for me has been CAJames' recommendation for Surplussales:

https://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/0-5/TubesListed-5.html

Another good one is Antique Electronic Supply:

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum_tubes

They have excellent prices, and they stand behind their sales. Recently I wrote them about one of their tubes that failed for me shortly after I purchased a matched pair from them, and they replaced both of them at no cost.

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by ArtMan on 12/09/22 at 18:19:56

If you want an excellent rectifier, with rock solid bass, delicate and extended highs and likely to last many years, go with the Cryotone 5U4GB-WC. It is that good.

https://www.wathenspeakers.com/store/p18/5U4GB-WC.html

Title: Re: New Decware 5U4G-ST rectifier
Post by Tony on 12/09/22 at 19:35:38

I agree with Artman on that.

I have all Cryotones in my CSP 2+ and my SE84UFO. FWIW, I preferred the Cryo 5AR4s over the Cryo 5U4s, but both are excellent.

There is a big jump up in price for both.