Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl SPEAKER FORUMS >> Betsy Open Baffle >> Lii open baffle. https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1627089290 Message started by Coyote on 07/24/21 at 02:14:50

Title: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 07/24/21 at 02:14:50 Greetings everyone, First post here. Hopefully I will not break any rules, post in the right section etc. I finally ordered my SE84UFO2. I am stoke. I have a few months to thinker what to do with my current set-up. I have been an audio aficionado since the 1980s but life got in the way so I am definitely rusted. I was just about going to order the Lii Chrystal 10 or Silver 8 with Andy's baffle. Then I thought my budget on the drivers is just under $1k so silver 8 make sense if I want to ad a woofer... I do not need loud, but have you ever heard thunder through your guts, when you can 'feel' the bass. hat is kind of what I am hoping for. Space. Putting a W-baffle between the FR means I would have to move it every time I want to open the credenza drawers it lives in front of. And its mono, (is that a concern at all?). I am now thinking about this: ... ... I cannot seem to be able to ad an image, well it is a Nelson Pass open baffle slob . Basically Andy's baffle with a woofer shootting down under it compressed and forward but integrated with the baffle. So two lii woofers 12 or 15" in those OB. Do the mono vs stereo makes a difference for the w? I think the Silver 8 would give more definition then the 10'' and not being bothered by low frequencies be a better driver. a passive cross around 150hrz and there, now I am lost. All this driven by the little SET? I could, as an option drive the woofers with one or two Quad 303 but I think I would prefer a second SET... The Quads are fun but "lose" . I have a set of Ditton 66 as my reference speakers. My main source is a TT with Ortophon cartridge's  and stylus. An Oppo 970 plays the extensive collection I do not really care about. So there, if anyone cares to comment. Any suggestion welcome! Thanking you all in advance. Kind regards, a.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Randy in Caintuck on 07/24/21 at 17:23:51 Hi Coyote, Welcome to the forum ..... All of the Lii Audio drivers sound good, as well as the Wild Burro Betsy drivers. Just different "flavors" ..... I will have the following at the 2021 Decware Audio Fest in October - 1 - Fast-8 baffles 2 - Silver-8 baffles 3 Silver-10 baffles 4 - F-15 baffles 5 - a W-15 bass baffle There will also be original Betsy and alnico Betsy baffles on hand ..... I will also have a plate amplifier to power the W-15 baffle and inductor boxes that allow the W-15 baffle to be powered in "passive mode" from the main power amplifier. If you can make plans to attend, you can compare the various drivers and configurations personally. Best wishes, Randy

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Tony on 07/27/21 at 01:29:34 Hi Coyote, A couple of month back I was in a similar situation as you, working within a budget to order an amp, ZRock2, and a few other things.  I also needed new speakers as my Elacs did not have the required sensitivity.  The open baffle speakers seemed to be a good idea, but having never heard this design, it was a tough decision.  People who bought the 15 inch drivers raved, but ultimately I went for the Fast 8's and could not be happier with my choice.  The first time I heard them with my current vintage amp, my jaw hit the floor.  The sound was of a different genre, and for the first time I clearly heard a sound stage.  I don't think you can go wrong as Randy is a real craftsman and the drivers are first class.  Once you decide what is best for your listening environment, I am sure you will be much more than just satisfied with the choice. Be well, Tony

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 07/27/21 at 17:01:10 Hi Randy, Thank you for the information, I live in Vancouver BC and so I do not think I will be able to attend Decware Audio Fest, at least not this year. I am reading and learning about OB and high efficiency drivers in general. I will have to make a decision at some point! Kind regards, Alain

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 07/27/21 at 17:06:30 Hi Tony, Thank you for the reply. "The first time I heard them with my current vintage amp, my jaw hit the floor. " Haha, well that is good to hear! Yes the OB will be a "leap of faith" as I know nothing of this type of speakers, nothing about Lii! My current set-up is just old Quad 303s and 33 a TT and an old DAC. So this will be a change! I keep hearing good things about Randy so that is good to! Thanks again. Kind regards, Alain

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by kulafu on 07/27/21 at 18:27:58 Coyote, Welcome to the forum as well!  I can speak from experience that I love my Lii15's from Randy!  I A/B'd this with my Klipsch Heresy IIIs and although I love them, they have been relegated elsewhere and my main speakers are the Lii15's. You wont go wrong with any choice!  I have paired my Lii 15's with a Rel subwoofer.  Somewhere in this forum the Dayton Audio subwoofer also comes recommended and at a very reasonable price point.  You might want to consider this as well as the W15's.   Bob

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 07/28/21 at 03:06:44 Hello everyone, So nice to see the responses to my "newbie" questions. Is there a case for having two separate bass drivers instead of one mono ? Or is that a non-issue? I run one sub on my current system, but I wonder if on woofers a separation would be beneficial. kind regards, a.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Randy in Caintuck on 07/30/21 at 00:08:09 Hi Coyote, To my ears, a single subwoofer (or bass baffle) and dual (stereo) subwoofers (or bass baffles) are two totally different sounds. In theory, bass below a certain frequency is "non-directional" and the human ear is not terribly sensitive or adept at locating low bass. So, mono bass should be adequate in most cases. However, that is not what my ears tell me. Having said that, I am more than happy with a single bass baffle in my listening room. The placement of low frequency instruments in the soundstage / stereo image doesn't seem to have much of a relationship to the location of the bass baffle, but that might well be a function of the upper harmonics of the low frequency instruments. Just my 2 cents ..... Other forum members might have a different experience or thought. Best wishes, Randy

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 08/01/21 at 20:11:55 Greetings, Continuing my exploration in speaker's options. I am now curious as to the Lii 8'' premium full range and the 15'' full range. The first thing that got my attention is... They are the same price, $430 vs $399. Is this a quality difference in construction??, material ?? I also noticed that the 15" are now on special, I do not know Lii but would that suggest that they will be coming with a new version of the 15" and are just discounting these "until quantities last"? I am currently going between a pair of 8" premium or a pair of full range 15". These in Randy's "Plus" serie baffles. All this is in the spirit of improving at later date (oh Lord) so looking for  the best base to start with. I feel with the FR15 I might later want to add say a small pair of wood tweeter horns while with 8" I might want to ad a W15". Being FR, I might want nothing more in the speaker category and than would upgrade a different part of the system? Have you seen the ZTPRE?, no, no, no I would be handed divorce papers. Maybe better inter-connects, yes. ;-) I am reading everyone's comments and it guides the evolution of my thinking. I appreciate the conversation! Cheers, a.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 08/01/21 at 20:18:18 Randy, Thank you for your earlier comment. a.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Randy in Caintuck on 08/02/21 at 20:04:54 Hi Coyote, I am not going to recommend one setup over another ..... as you know, I enjoy both drivers ..... As to the "on sale" price of the F-15, they have been on sale for a LONG time. I have not heard anything about a premium version. A while back, they made a cosmetic change and went to an acrylic phase plug instead of the original wood phase plug. This has been a very successful driver for Lii Audio. To my ears, the top end of the F-15 is totally adequate with no help. It plays the upper harmonics of instruments and does things like cymbals and chimes well if the recording is good. Of course, if the recording is substandard (and many are) .... the cymbals will sound like an aluminum pie pan being whacked on with a broom handle ..... I think that most of the forum readers who own baffles with the F-15 drivers have expressed a similar satisfaction with the top end of the driver. The 8" drivers definitely need help in the lower bass ..... but in my small baffles the F-15s also benefit from a subwoofer or bass baffle, in my opinion. In a larger baffle .... the bass is  more substantial and needs no help on the bottom. https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS2.html https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS.html Some other forum contributors might have some additional thoughts. Best wishes, Randy

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 08/02/21 at 22:19:50 Hi Randy, You guys are the lucky ones having all that gear at your disposal. I myself have to chose. "the cymbals will sound like an aluminum pie pan being whacked on with a broom handle ... " Whaahahaha. That one made me laugh. Yes larger baffles. Unfortunately this is for the small room that is 12ft W x 15L, the sitting position is at 13ft from the facing wall so with the baffles say 3ft from that wall the listening distance is approximately 10ft. (If that make some sense). I could take pictures... Also the baffles from Steve are very nice but the price is prohibitive for me. Yours 1 1/2" thick curly cherry at $799.00 Plus $400.00 for the Lii F15 just blows my original intended budget by about $200.00. I am also realizing that my TT will likely need a phono amp in front of it so no new DAC for me!  (or maybe I can use my current Quad 33? I have to research that). :-) I am definitely leaning towards the F15 and at a later date if a 'better' 15" FR appear I can swap the driver in your baffles. As always thanks for your contribution in my education! Cheers, a.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by HockessinKid on 08/03/21 at 00:30:43 a. I have a room of the same size, its a dedicated listening room. My equipment is listed below. I upgraded from Randy's older baffles to the newer 1 1/2" thick baffles with the Lii Audio F15 drivers recently.  The thicker baffles provide added weight to the sound and a sound much better to my ears. Its worth the added expense, you won't be sorry for kicking in the extra cash. Also remember the Caintuck Audio Lii15 baffles are designed to be placed on the floor. I also suggest that you take time to treat your room properly, especially with open baffle speakers. It makes all the difference in your listening experience. I suggest looking into diffuser panels to be placed on the wall behind the speakers.   Also, if you can move your source equipment and TT on to the side of the room and run long IC's so much the better. Lots of folks put tall equipment racks between the speakers, it really messes up the imaging. Trust me on this one. Good luck with your journey, the F15 drivers and Randy's baffles will provide many hours of delightful listening. HK

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 08/04/21 at 01:42:27 Thank you HK, Your post is most appreciated. To me these babies will sit ten to eight feet from my sitting position and some ten feet apart from each other. I imagine yours are in similar location and so this is re-assuring. They will be driven by one SET UFO2 and mainly for listening sessions with a TT. Unfortunately my setup is not optimal. On the 12ft wide side a 6ft credenza is sitting on center this is where the gear will go, the baffles will be on each side and slightly in front of the credenza, this entire wall (12ft) behind the credenza has a 4ft window going down from the ceiling so 1/2 the wall is glass BUT I have installed heavy damping curtains. cheers, a.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Geno on 08/04/21 at 03:00:13 Coyote, something to consider. One of the generally accepted rules of an open baffle setup is, “no absorption behind”.  This can really hurt your bass response. Diffusion is usually preferred.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 08/04/21 at 03:16:11 Excellent point. "no absorption behind”." I am hoping my poor situation will gain from that!!! just some room distortion! cheers a.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Geno on 08/04/21 at 03:40:27 I was referring to the heavy curtains acting as absorption. I have a big double window behind mine, and have diffusion panels covering most of it.

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Randy in Caintuck on 08/04/21 at 17:07:04 There are diffusers on the front wall of my listening room .... There is an absorbing panel on the rear wall behind the listening seat. There are absorbers on the side walls to catch the "first reflection" of the speakers and my CD racks are also on the side walls, which act as diffusers. The corners of the room have narrow wood panels that help to eliminate the normal 90 degree situation. I'm quite happy with the sound ..... The soundstage (on good recordings) extends into the room and well behind the front wall. On good recordings, the width of the stereo image can extend several feet beyond the side walls ..... with the instruments and voices solid and well defined. The low level detail and focus are excellent. On a regular basis, I hear things that are so real sounding that I actually catch myself laughing out loud ..... My wife tells me that I'm easily amused ..... Happy listening, Randy

Title: Re: Lii open baffle. Post by Coyote on 08/04/21 at 20:25:03 Hi Geno, Thanks for the comment. The windows are from the ceiling to about 3ft from the floor and the curtains are the same so the beauty of Randy's baffle for me is that they will be on the floor just below the window sill. I am hoping the curtains will tamper the glass "reflections" from the back of the baffles, maybe opening/closing the curtain can also change the colour or brightness that the glass windows may produce. At this point it is just speculations for me. Cheers, a.

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