Post by JBzen on 03/31/21 at 09:03:56
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Lii Audio Silver 10 https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1616372005 Message started by rmlowz on 03/22/21 at 01:13:25 |
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Title: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 03/22/21 at 01:13:25 Do any forum members own this Driver? I have the F15s that I really enjoy. I am ready for something different. I will also get a pair of W15s is the silver 10 a big upgrade? Thanks Rmlowz |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Steve Deckert on 03/22/21 at 03:56:24 Welcome to the forum! This may help, it's several videos of both the F15's in an Open Baffle and the Silver 10's in the Lii Audio Reference Cabinet. This one is the Silver 10's https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO14X7TvgeziUhdpPTmwp1u8NjnIU8kkV And this one is the F15's https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO14X7Tvgezg5iN8eXiUjVmQmLJdRvSiY And then again, it may not, because what you really want to know is how they compare in an open baffle scenario, and the answer is you will trade the "hit" for "nuanced and refined upper midrange and top end performance". I'm quoting myself. After spending last winter going back and forth between the ZF15L and ZC10M Baffle designs, the later featuring the Crystal 10 with an active eq, I am still on the fence of which one I would save in a fire assuming I could only save one pair. My conclusion, is pray for no fire, and own both. Steve |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 03/22/21 at 13:58:51 Thanks Steve I think I will take your advice and own both and pray for no Fire LOL I almost want to get another pair of F15s to go with the W15s. And still use my separate F15s in another room. I have a question please what EQ to you recommend Thanks again Rmlowz |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Archie on 03/22/21 at 16:58:52 As I recall, Steve used the ZROCK2 with the Crystal 10s but NOT the F15s. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 03/24/21 at 21:29:52 Thanks for everybody's help, I ordered a pair of S10s and a pair of W15s today Rich |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Palomino on 03/30/21 at 19:51:56 Depending on what amp you run, you may need to bi-amp. I have one set of OBs with the C10s and Acoustic Elegance LO15s which look (and possibly sound) very similar to the W15s. I run the 25th Anniversary Zen on the C10s and a Crown amp for the LO15s. For the very low end (under 40Hz) I sometimes run a sub on a plate amp. I also have a pair of F15 in an OB setup. The way one person who heard both back to back described it is the C10 based OBs sounded more audiophile which the F15 sounded smoother and more hi-fi, if that makes any sense. I loaned him my F15 OBs and have been dialing in and listening to the C10 based speakers. That was a few months ago. The key on getting the best out of the C10 based speakers has been getting the crossover right. Currently I am at 160Hz. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Ellsworth on 03/31/21 at 01:45:52 I have the exact setup that you have ordered. The W15s and the S10s are in the same baffle. Like Palomino, I am using a Crown amp for the bass woofers. My (25th anniversary Zen is driving the S10s. I thin the setup is fantastic. My original build had the Crystal 10s which I replaced with the Silver 10s. Both are great speakers. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Ellsworth on 03/31/21 at 01:53:43 Here is a picture of the Silver 10s and W15s. I am also running Supertweeters. The speakers are excellent without the super tweeters but I had them with my previous speakers and feel like they do add something. P.S. the picture is upside down but I can’t figure out how to edit |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by JBzen on 03/31/21 at 09:03:56
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Ellsworth on 03/31/21 at 12:45:52 Thanks for flipping the picture! |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Palomino on 03/31/21 at 13:27:30 I also run super tweeters although recently I have been experimenting with an up-firing dome tweeter. I haven’t measured it yet to compare but it seems to supply a little more air. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 03/31/21 at 22:56:47 Thanks for all the input. They got here today, UPS did their number on them but they appear to be unharmed. I am building the baffles now. How is everyone connecting the W15s they have two sets of speaker terminals? Thanks again, Rich |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Ellsworth on 04/01/21 at 00:29:44 I just connected to one set of the terminals. Someone with more expertise may be able to give you better guidance. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Palomino on 04/01/21 at 01:42:06 It’s dual voice coil. Google it for the connections and the impact on ohms. I have positive to positive, negative to negative and then connect the speaker wires to one set of positive/negative. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Palomino on 04/01/21 at 01:44:24 https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374200-Dual-Voice-Coil-DVC-Wiring-Tutorial?mobile_site=true |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 04/02/21 at 01:18:51 Thanks I will connect them up as described. I am a plug and play guy and don't know a lot about the technical side of a lot of Audio. What does this do to the sound? is it a better bass response instead of connecting them up to only one side of the W15?. Just curious Thanks Rich |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Palomino on 04/02/21 at 02:19:01 I’m no expert myself. It offers some wiring options and increases the efficiency if you wire up both voice coils. Another article: https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374150-Speaker-Wiring-Tutorial?mobile_site=tire Not sure what I’m doing wrong on the web page link. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Donnie on 04/02/21 at 02:27:01 It changes the ohm load to the amplifier. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Steve Deckert on 04/13/21 at 06:12:45 An example of how good Lii Audio actually is!!! Lii Audio is a smaller company, like a China version of small family business like Decware! We have seen and heard through the amazing loudspeaker drivers we have tried here at Decware just how dedicated the gurus are at Lii Audio are to extreme hifi -- all you have to do it listen to one of their drivers in the right enclosure or baffle and you just know. We have many youtube videos of Lii Audio drivers playing full-range with low power tube amplification. Well every great company has some products that are so out there that very few can afford them, which is funny because they can actually afford them, it just doesn't fit their perception of what a driver should cost. Anyway, I happen to know that these are the best Lii Audio drivers available at around $2500.00 each. They make me salivate.  If you consider that these would probably work in a large cabinet or baffle, and of course no crossover, and can be driven by a couple watts, it could be a reference system that actually costs a fraction of normal. A Decware amp for 1K on up, the speakers for 5K, and 5K for cabinets or baffles, and another 5 to 10K for a source in a treated listening room and you would have something closer to a space ship / time machine than a stereo. Trust me on that one. No one who came by to listen would leave the same. I know this because I can do it now with the 1K Lii audio drivers, and I can also do it with their $400 drivers. Steve |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Palomino on 04/13/21 at 14:16:41 Lii + 25th = Zen. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/14/21 at 02:54:48 Steve wrote ..... Quote:
I will be offering these drivers in my baffles next week ..... NOT .....  It would no doubt be a treat to hear them ..... Unfortunately, I don't have any rich uncles .....  Happy listening, Randy |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Steve Deckert on 04/14/21 at 05:21:10 The purple cone material is driving me mad... and look at all that magnet. Probably cobalt... what is cool about it is that it is not even on their web site so far as I know. I would love to hear one in the Lii Reference cabinet... or whatever it wants. A driver like this you simply design the perfect enclosure based on a Q of .7 using measured T&S parameters for each driver and then build a room to properly suit the speakers. Then you buy a zen to drive them, the least expensive part of the picture. Definitely and end game speaker, but I guess my point in posting this is to demonstrate the humility of Lii Audio to not even mention it on their web site, and also to illustrate their abilities. Should make anyone owning Lii Audio feel even better about their speakers knowing this is the kind of lineage they trickle down from. To make a driver that good isn't something just anyone can do. To be able to hear well enough to crave something that good is also not something just anyone does. Steve |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Steve Deckert on 04/14/21 at 05:46:43 Randy, I am still feeling the withdrawal effect of the Silver 10's placed on either side of the fireplace on the long wall. It was a sound that had it all, except infinite sound stage depth with that placement but I didn't mind the trade off because the stage got wider that I've ever heard one. More importantly, the range. The range. The range. When evaluating tapes or mastering tapes or doing anything serious like that that would have to go out to the public with my name on it, these would be the speakers I have to have just to cover my ass. No-one is going to have anything more and it gets the entire range. Did I mention range? It is really satisfying also to listen to 100dB with a Zen Amp because it sounds like you have big power. And again, these dig down and wreck the room like the Imperials did, and I'm sure you remember that demo at DECFEST since you were the one that made it happen with your music selection. Right now I am back to listening the F15's in the Big Betsy's... and they are wonderful, but I'm not sure anymore that I would choose them over the updated Lii Cabinet with the Silver 10's. This hobby can be maddening. I realize now that speakers are a lot like women. No further explanation required. Tonight I am listening to vinyl... I drank one too many beers the other night celebrating a few successes and found myself on eBay looking at DynaGroove records. I found out the next morning when I examined my purchase history that alcohol and eBay really do not mix. (Shut up Lon) So needless to say a whole shit pile of records have shown up (I'm listening to them now) and while I spent $100 on records, the average price per LP was about $4 and most were new in shrink wrap, and all were DynaGroove. So a huge score. Simply because they say "Readers Digest" on them most people avoid them like the plague... hehe, thank God for that. I have a series of parts on order to complete the W15 and Fast8 baffle trio hoping to upset the apple cart, which I'm sure it will. Preliminary demos with the 90 dollar sub amp were listenable. So I am looking forward to that - it's kind of a shoot out right now between the Lii Reference cabinets, the Large Zen Master Series Baffles, and your baffles with the Fast 8 and W15. Don't know yet which will finally win, but after what I said about the Silver 10's, it's a lot to live up to. The Big Baffles can't get there because there is no sub... One thing is for certain, your little baffle design has changed a lot of lives and I can't think of a room that they wouldn't work in, literally. |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/15/21 at 01:38:13 Hi Steve, Until now, I have not offered my baffles with any of the 10" Lii Audio drivers because I thought that the price point would put them outside of what my intended customer base would be wanting to spend .....  However, I recently received several requests for speakers with the Silver-10 drivers. So ..... I just ordered a pair and will build some test baffles when they arrive. My gut is telling me that a powered subwoofer or powered bass baffle will be needed to create a full range system ..... or the addition of a ZROCK. I'm looking forward to hearing them. If the Silver-8 drivers are any indication of what they will sound like, I might have another winner on my hands .....   Best wishes, Randy |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Steve Deckert on 04/16/21 at 16:30:26 It would be fun if they made these drivers in a high Q version for open baffle. It would be a game changer. Steve |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 04/17/21 at 02:13:22 Hello Steve, Maybe I am confused are you saying the S10 is not suited for open baffle? rmlowz |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 05/15/21 at 15:42:24 I finally got them built. I have been listening for two days. This combo are keepers for sure. rmlowz |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Geno on 05/15/21 at 16:58:00 Nice build! Are you using the Leon crossover? What are you driving them with? |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 05/15/21 at 22:25:48 Thanks, Yes I am using the Lii Crossover. I have it connected to a Fleawatt amp by Derek Sanderson right now. I have several tube amps I will try next Universal Inspire By Dennis Had and a 45 Inspire By Dennis Had, Will Vincent ST70. I have a Decware on order I an hoping to get it by the end of the year. The are really stacked up on builds as you know rmlowz |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by rmlowz on 05/16/21 at 01:58:57 I built the OBs per Leons plans although sometimes my OCD kicks in and think I should have centered the speaker on the top baffle LOL rmlowz |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Donnie on 05/16/21 at 03:12:52 The main drivers in my OB's are also offset in a way that drives me crazy(er). But the math says that there shouldn't be symmetry around the driver. I've learned to live with it. Maybe it sounds better because of it?? |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/16/21 at 03:14:42 Well ..... the phrase "never say never" has come back to bite me in the butt ..... Earlier in this thread, I stated that there were no plans to offer the Silver-10 drivers in my low profile baffles. However, requests started coming in and my curiosity got the better of me .....  Larger photo here. I just returned from visiting a local customer who has become an audio buddy and had the Silver-10s on loan to him to get his thoughts. We fired up his system and four hours later we were still shaking our heads in disbelief while streaming a wide variety of music. Truthfully, I think that everyone is tired of the normal "audio superlatives", so I won't make everyone suffer through them .....  However, other than the fact that these drivers don't do subterranean bass in a small open baffle, they checked every box that is musically and sonically important to me (and my audio buddy). With the addition of a good powered subwoofer or a powered bass baffle with a Lii Audio W-15 driver, these drivers are worth every penny of the asking price. If you are a DIY builder, buy these drivers from Lii Audio and consider yourself as having won the audio lottery. I recently posted some information in the "Betsy" section of the forum, but had not yet wrapped my head around the real ability and musicality of these drivers. That thread can be found here. All of the Lii Audio drivers are good ..... this is their "flagship". Enough said ..... Happy listening, Randy |
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Title: Re: Lii Audio Silver 10 Post by ihmeyers on 10/13/21 at 14:46:19 I just purchased a pair of W-15s and a pair of S-10s for a Liionidas build. Curious what wiring people are using to connect the drivers. I was considering vintage 16ga Western Electric or Duelund. Everyone loves the Duelund wire although I have to say I've used it and typically found it bright. Maybe not broken in. I'm considering wire in the ~10ft range but no more than that. Thanks. |
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