Post by CAJames on 01/07/24 at 23:46:20
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What the WHAT!??!
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1704665765 Message started by Steve Deckert on 01/07/24 at 22:16:05 |
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Title: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/07/24 at 22:16:05 Contemplating what it would take to have an omni speaker like our Radials, but be open baffle and single driver and no crossover. Not too much to ask. I’ve been pondering it for awhile now. It can't be omni unless the wavefront is somewhat close to horizontal as opposed to pointing at your face. That creates an interesting problem with what to do with the back wave among other things. I would have had a proof of concept of this idea a lot sooner but as usual I tried to overcomplicate it. You can’t maintain a title of zen master very long if things get simplified by becoming overly complex. Today I let the Audio Gods trick me into a solution on all four counts. Problems to overcome are: 1) How to couple the open baffle to at least one boundary (floor) so it will have bass without a woofer. 2) How to keep from hearing the back wave at the same time as the front wave as will be the case when an open baffle is horizontal above the floor. 3) How to maintain focus with being reliant on the distance from the front wall behind the speakers. Normal open baffles must be to the inch a specific distance from the front wall for perfect focus. Omni speakers like the Radials will maintain focus and a good image regardless of this distance. 4) Do it with a single driver per side and no crossover. Because after all, the only thing that can really be better than an open baffle is an omnidirectional open baffle that somehow has bass and good focus. I'll let you ponder it for awhile before I reveal how it is done with proof on concept photos and possibly a video demo as well. Steve |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Kamran on 01/07/24 at 22:22:12 Intrigued and following! |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/07/24 at 23:29:29 ... OMG it is so good!!! The imaging and stage are just DEEP. However, don't get too excited. My agreement with the Audio Gods is that it's only about the sound, never looks or marketing. And not entirely surprising the answer to my question was not what one would expect and will be seen by many as unsightly and ridiculous. Ask me if I care. You won't be hurting my feelings but probably won't score any points with the Audio Gods either. ; ) |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by CAJames on 01/07/24 at 23:46:20 Quote:
What the WHAT!??!
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/08/24 at 00:31:15 Kamran I'm just going to apologize to you ahead of time for the rabbit hole this is going to shove you (and others) down.  |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Doug on 01/08/24 at 01:21:53 When is the big reveal? Can’t wait to see this! |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Brian on 01/08/24 at 02:36:52 This sounds fascinating! Brian |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Gilf on 01/08/24 at 03:44:57 A ZF15L with a big scoop 90* back and pointed at the ceiling? |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Bottlehead on 01/08/24 at 05:52:54 I’m guessing that there are other Decware followers/forum members who, like me, are much more interested in the sound, and not so concerned about the looks. (Although I will admit that some of the systems showcased here, like Charlie’s, Groovy’s, Geno’s, and others that I can’t think of at the moment, are gorgeous). So color me intrigued, as well. Randy |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by DJFreon on 01/08/24 at 13:57:15 I haven't finished my Headwreckers yet and Steve has another amazing design brewing, what the heck! |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Dominick on 01/08/24 at 16:38:52 Coming from someone who owns/loves the Decware radial sound….I’m intrigued to say the least!! Looking forward to this thread. Dom |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by The other Lon on 01/08/24 at 18:55:53 It's times like these I am glad I have an obnoxious cat who literally likes to hang from a chandelier. Open baffle anything is not possible in the house. Metal shelving grates in front of the HT subwoofer just to keep him out. Looking forward to seeing the design though. Sounds extremely interesting. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Tony on 01/08/24 at 19:35:36 Hey Other Lon, I don't know how old your cat is, mine just turned 21. When she was younger, she was constantly looking for mischief. However, in the past year, she has mellowed out, so something for you to look forward to perhaps - in a few more years :) |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by CAJames on 01/08/24 at 19:52:31 Quote:
Or squirt bottles. Just sayin'.  |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by LiquidBlue on 01/08/24 at 23:12:12 Shaking a bunch of keys works good for me. Especially around electronics. ;) Tony, 21! That’s something to celebrate! |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/09/24 at 02:19:49 PLAN OF ATTACK Since we know it is possible to cast a holographic image 5 foot above the floor from speakers with drivers only 1 foot from the floor (Randy’s Betsy Open Baffles), my experiment was going to be kept similarly low to the ground so that there is bass. Randy’s baffles have bass because they sit on the floor. If you lift one a meter off the ground it will have no bass. Rotating it to a horizontal position so that it is floating horizontally 1 meter above the floor will also severely roll the highs. I knew it wouldn’t be horizontal as in 0 degrees, but some to be determined angle. So this is what I came up with.  |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/09/24 at 02:25:19  The board on the top was added for projection... something the normal open baffle has that I don't want to loose. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/09/24 at 02:29:22  |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/09/24 at 02:42:58 DESIGN NOTES/OBSERVATIONS It is the shadow created by the bottom (now top) of the speaker and the thick wood blocks under it that makes everything work. Rotating the lower wood block by 90 degrees deletes the shadow by allowing the driver to shoot sound directly on the wall behind the speaker which in turn reflects back to the listener. I tried this and the sound was artificially large, more open sounding and defocused.  The more open sounding was created by the absence of reflection from the lower block of wood coloring the sound in the lower midrange. This was easily fixed by leaning a piece of 2 inch foam in front of the block at an angle creating a diaphragmatic absorber. (not shown in the picture) The box-less sound of open baffle is accomplished in this setup be keeping the rear wave energy from hitting the front wall. The white lines are showing the shape of the rear wave on both the floor and walls. This wavefront is largely absent of high frequency content eliminating the time smearing conflicts between the front and rear wave that would normally occur. Initial listening tests have confirmed the imaging and soundstage are superior in this configuration to the obvious competition which is the open baffle set up the normal way. A big advantage I hoped for with this design was to get a similar soundstage as I get from the HRv2 speakers when I am setting in a tall listening stool but when kicked back in the lower more comfy listening chair. That is exactly what I got, which is btw a little something I have been chasing since the original HDT design in 1991. The comb filtering effect that occurs on the floor between the speakers and listener are non-existent now. Driver choice - knowing it probably wouldn’t be ideal I first tried the F15 driver, but I detected an urge to add a tweeter, and the bass which is so tight on that driver became over damped with such a close proximity to the floor. If you’re going to listen to a radial driver to sound flat the driver will have to have an on axis peak in the highs so I chose the Fast-15 which has just that. Also that driver has a softer suspension and the proximity to the floor actually tightens up the bass similar to the F15 in the ZF15L baffle. Also it drops a bit lower which is nice. The bass is simply killer good - over the top good I would say. Clean, textured, open, musical, believable. Everything is perfectly balanced so far as I can tell. It just sounds wonderful, the way I like it. The irony is that I didn’t like the presence peak in the Fast-15, and missed the tight bass of the F15, and now the bass is tight and the peak is gone. No crossover, EQ, or manipulation, just this magic angle of 37.5 degrees and the distance from the cone to the floor. Radial wave fronts - In real life there is never a sound that will hit your ear that emanates from a round cone other than a trumpet. Everything else is basically omni, so it is somewhat futile to expect to perfectly reproduce a 3D sound field with two cones, or even flat or curved panels because they are 90 degrees to the ground and real sound does not launch from a flat or curved plane exactly 90 degrees from the ground. Just making a case for radial speaker design. It sounds the most natural when done right. This was a proof of concept and my thinking was that if successful figure out a way to do it in a tower speaker more like say the ERRx or something. Now that I know how to compute the angle it may be possible, but I can tell you now it will never sound like this. This is big and effortless with wrap around scale that just won’t come from anything else… Also it is so rock solid 3D from everywhere, that if all speakers could do this, it might be worth asking the Audio Gods if it is possible to adjust the aperture and focal depth of the sound stage. The ability to soften the background and spotlight a certain depth would be control on a level no audiophile has ever experienced, myself included of course. But the focus and density I am getting from everywhere suggests that we could probably go to that level if we knew how with a speaker like this. Getting any open baffle placed in the right spot has always been difficult from the stand point of getting that perfectly deep focused sound stage. The speakers really had to be in the exact right spot. Not these, these are easy. They are going to image far better in every case and in every room when compared to the standard vertical baffles. It will be fun to watch peoples faces who listen to this. I've been hearing all kinds of stuff that I didn't know was there simply because the layering is so superior. Happy listening : ) Steve |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by 4krow on 01/09/24 at 03:29:29 This exactly why I won't stop experimenting in audio, especially with speakers/drivers/placement and more. 'What if?' Rules man. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Bottlehead on 01/09/24 at 04:29:13 That Steve. He keeps it interesting, doesn’t he? Love it. Randy |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Kamran on 01/09/24 at 06:04:27 Quote:
And then some… |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Dominick on 01/09/24 at 13:46:40 Steve….as soon as I saw the photos I had a huge smile on my face. This setup/design mirrors stage monitors that I used to use when I was in a band playing the guitar. As most already know…musicians on stage need monitors to hear what they are playing in a concert setup. Out of curiosity….is the angle degree that you established similar to the angle that stage monitors project for musicians on stage? With my Err’s…I had built small platforms with a layer of rubber underneath it for them to sit on. This was done for two purposes…one was to accommodate my listening chair, and two was to decouple my speakers from the hard wood floor. These is my first design with cheap wood, but the second design is going to made of a nice hardwood that will have a hidden platform on the backside to accommodate a shelf that will house a removable “sled” that will allow me to mount my huge Miflex capacitors to replace the stock ones. Steve…can you setup a prerecorded listening demo with an A/B comparison with regular OB’s and your new design concept? I would love to hear the difference in the bass and soundstage. Dom |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/10/24 at 02:42:59 actually just shorted my brain. That point where it sounds so real it becomes a paradox. These things are affecting everyone in a profound way. I love it. Go figure. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by JBzen on 01/13/24 at 12:48:20 Damn, you got me thinking of making a road trip! Nice adaptation to an excellent speaker. John |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Kamran on 01/13/24 at 18:11:32 That makes the two of us! Looking forward to more development updates. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Bottlehead on 01/14/24 at 00:27:22 Bought a solid core door off Craigslist yesterday. 96”x34”x1.75”. $30. I’ll make the baffles from that. $15 apiece. Not the nicest looking at the moment, but a little bondo and some TLC, and they’ll be all right. I don’t really care that much about the aesthetics with this project, anyway. The only problem with the whole transaction is that the door weighs 106 lbs, according to the seller. I had to cut it in half while it was still in my truck to get it into the garage. Gotta wait for a while to order the drivers, tho. Got a little carried away with audio purchases these last few months. Need to let my credit card cool off a bit. Randy |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 01:52:11 UPDATE 1/22/24 We have been listening to these as pictured since the initial setup and everyone here likes them. I knew they would. It is the same soundstage as I have been getting from the HRv2 speakers when I sit in my office chair but now it happens in the listening chair that is 12 inches lower. So the proof of concept was a success. It is possible to make an omni/radial open baffle single-driver crossoverless loudspeaker that impresses! I ordered up 10 board feet of 8/4 cherry on the first night of testing which arrived in time for the weekend so I got to work taking it from a proof of concept to an actual loudspeaker. If you look at the pictures you see the square panel that I added to the top of the speaker... I added that mainly for psychoacoustic reasons. Because the speakers are so low it troubles the brain to hear sound from so high. Adding the board there gives a visual to settle the brain. Of course I thought about drilling a small hole in the center and painting it black and telling people it was a tweeter to further settle their minds because it sounds like there already is a tweeter there. Then I thought - screw it - what if I actually put a tweeter a there... that would settle the mind completely. I just won't hook it up! Even if I wanted to hook it up it wouldn't be that easy. To add a tweeter and not screw up this flawless sound stage would take some tricky dicky stuff. A few days later I got curious if it would be even possible, and wondered what it would sound like and remember how much I like the AMT di-pole tweeter that Don Thomas uses in his Wathen Speakers Cryotone open baffles. So I got a pair and set them on top of the wood panels on each speaker. Since the wood panels were just balancing there with some friction it didn't take long for Audio God #5, Ishmeal to win the bet that I would knock it off, so when it launched like a 5 lbs brick through the cone of the 15 inch driver I knew I was entertaining everyone but myself. After fixing the cone so I could listen to the tweeters I found the same stunt for wiring the tweeter on the ERRx also worked here, so it sounded very good. In fact it got even better than it was. I made some new panels from the Cherry and got everything installed today. There is no reason to build a new speaker. This speaker can easily be both which is to say be used normally or inverted. Steve NOTE: The following pictures can be enlarged by clicking on them. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:12:10  Step one was to make a hinged panel that opens up to the correct angle so that the speakers can be flipped. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:14:22  This panel has two angles on it. Of course I choose the wrong one and installed both of them backwards. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:18:42  It can be opened for when the speaker is flipped. See, I will be demoing these speakers both ways, so it has to be super easy. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:20:06  When closed, two rubber spacers (o-rings) are used to set the proper spacing. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:23:06  Here is actually the correct way that the panels were to be mounted. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:25:41  A profile view of how this works... |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:29:14  Then the tweeters are installed. The tweeters have their own binding posts making them an accessory that can be installed with two screws. I set them at 5 degrees back angle, but they have a range of around 220 degrees so they can point beyond straight up or straight down or anywhere in between. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:30:19  A better view of the tweeter. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:31:04  |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:32:16  |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:34:25 Cap is connected directly to the tweeter and the binding post. No wire, no boards. The other lead is 2.5 inches of silver/teflon wire between the tweeter and binding post. That might sound insignificant, but compared to most speakers, even my house speakers, it is vastly superior. This has only two solder nodes. The house speakers have around twenty.  So with this setup, bi-wiring is required. I used ZWIRE on the 15 inch driver and ZFOCUS on the tweeter. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/23/24 at 02:49:15 So how does it sound? I'm pretty sure this is going to end up being the best speaker in the house. That is some very stiff competition. For sure it is in a whole different league compared to the conventional setup. Room compatibility skyrockets, and the sound gets unbelievably good. So far the depth is intoxicating. I heard a soundstage that was 60 feet deep and about that wide. I also heard it wrap around my shoulders all the way to back wall making me almost laugh at "surround sound". The tweeters are sick with this cable and cap. Just sick. I can tell I'm being wrecked. It's another gift from the Audio Gods and those magic spirits that weave everything together. The tweeters are even better than the original AMT as I remember them, or maybe it's the amplification after all it's been over 30 years since I had original AMT tweeters. So I see it going like this: The hinged panels are the big one. Think of that as level one. They can be sold for DIY install or the customer can remove the bases from the ZF15M and have them shipped back to Decware for installation here. The top panel actually has some projection qualities that make it more than a placebo, so that can be level two. Same applies. DIY or send the base in and we'll install it here. Top panel with tweeters would be level three. I'll figure out prices when I eventually update the web site with these options on new pairs. Anyway, the sound is glorious. I'm still in shock because it's so new and so good. Makes me wonder if it can get any better after the tweeter and caps break in ; ) Steve |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Brian on 01/23/24 at 04:28:06 Absolutely fabulous! Might you reshape the square tweeter board with curved sides to look like the melon shaped main baffle? Brian |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Dominick on 01/23/24 at 04:38:19 Steve, Love the design and the look!! Congratulations on yet another masterpiece. Out of curiosity…what other caps and values did you audition before you landed on the Audyn 5.6 cap? I’m asking because I recently resurrected an old Err thread with capacitor upgrades. I just started playing with different resistors and capacitors for my Err’s, and am really enjoying the exploration. Dom |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by JBzen on 01/23/24 at 08:28:02 Wondering how room dependent this new configuration is? Will 38 degrees give the same result in every room? Maybe best to give the bottom hinge panel a variable angle setting. In my room with the lazy boy recliner at 45 degree tilt, my head is positioned in a place that provides insane soundstage depth, width, and height. [smiley=peanuts05.gif] John |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by will on 01/23/24 at 23:59:00 Nice solutions Steve, sound and looks-wise. Thanks for sharing the journey and results with us! I wonder about the angle too, but more in terms of how it sounded on the way to this angle... were the effects progressively good from some point to this angle? |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 01/26/24 at 02:58:27 The angle is easy to find because the sound stage gets better and gets worse. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 02/04/24 at 00:03:10 Doing some psychology around the tweeter. Presently using it as a placebo to see how many notice it's not playing. So far no one. Everyone thinks it's killer and then I tell them the tweeters aren't on and get the same look as a child whose ice cream just fell off the cone.  Sorry can't help it. It's the only way to keep it honest. Steve |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by dank on 02/04/24 at 13:26:44 I'm thinking that your "wing" thing, where the tweeter mounts, has more to do with reflected sound than anything else. I know a lot of the Audio greats spent time and effort on reflected sound: Altec Lansing in the 50's, Bose in the 60's/70's/80's. I've even heard the JBL Paragon is, in part, a reflected sound design. What would that mean? Maybe you would want to make the wing angle adjustable? Shape it like a parabolic disc? Or the opposite of a parabolic disc? Dan |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 02/08/24 at 17:49:58 I couldn’t resist. So I made a concept based on your design. I had a pair of fast-8 sitting on a shelf, so I tried with those. Made a rough plywood baffle 30x36inches to help the driver extend in the lows a little. Playing with 3 tweeter types, soft dome, amt and bullet horn. The felt scarf around the top is to remove the projection from the aluminum plate holding the little tweeter baffle on the main baffle. Steve… I love you and the audio gods. There is fine tuning to be done still so these are easy to adjust angles as you weren’t kidding the angle changes to soundstage, its very noticeable, but when it is dialed in the soundstage, and presence, is incredible. I am tri amping, using 300b for the tweeters, 211 tubes for the fast 8 and class d for the bass drivers setup in the back corners. It’s an excercise in gain adjustments whenever I make a change , but the results are jaw dropping. I will make a version for the f15 and fast15 next while these tweeters finish their break-ins. I need to make a few posts so I am allowed to link pictures on my posts, will do so and share the pictures. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 02/08/24 at 18:02:05 Pic of the fast 8 baffles |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Gilf on 02/08/24 at 22:32:49 Great to finally see you here Loic. I’ve been a longtime fan of your YouTube channel. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Kamran on 02/08/24 at 22:40:10 Welcome aboard Loic! Big fan! Hope to see your experiments show up in a future YouTube video! |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 02/09/24 at 21:20:20 I am scared to now try the Zen Sarah with these speakers... because if the jump in soundstage dimensionality and warmth of mids even with such a soundstage applies in the same scale as it did with my conventional baffles but applies to the ability of these new concept speaker the mariage of the two will be difficult to convince people of how crazy this is in writing or in a 15 minute video. but I will try to do it justice anyway. ;-) |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Kamran on 02/10/24 at 00:25:35 Loic—if anyone can do it, you can! |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Geno on 02/10/24 at 01:50:29 Welcome Loic! Glad to have you here. Love your videos! We need another nut (I mean, guy😁) like you on the forum. I watched your latest video this morning, and noticed the leaned back baffle, and almost asked if you were experimenting with Steve’s concept. The wavy looking things on top, where a tweeter would go, had me scratching my head, though. Best, Geno |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 02/10/24 at 02:45:18 Welcome Loic, great to have your feedback on this : ). When I look at the picture you posted (as well as my own room) there is something right about the way the speakers cradle the space. The math for why it works so well is there, sidewalls nearly out of the picture, floor bounce and subsequent comb filter effect gone. It's a true radial wavefront that is tilted toward the listener. BTW, I proved my point with the tweeter placebo experiment so I am back to using them again. I like the dipole AMT and the openness from it. You don't hear them unless you sit down in the chair, which I also like because it is making the frequency balance of standing and sitting exactly the same - a first - Steve 
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 02/14/24 at 23:32:24 I really want to share a youtube video of sound clips to get your feedback of my diy baffles based on this concept using the Zen Sarah with cryotone 300Bs. But I need to make 12 regular post first. So now, 11 posts to go. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 02/14/24 at 23:46:30 Geno, 100% a diy trial based on Steve’s concept. You saw the pointy owl ears in my last video, those helped me try different places on where to eventually out the tweeter baffle in the bigger baffle. Even having those “pointy ears” on the baffles seemed to create reflections very slightly boosting the trebble. This concept of an open baffle speaker gives a spectacular sonic result. I told Steve in an email, after spending a few days listening to these its very hard to go back to front firing speakers. VERY. I am using the w15 behind them in the corners, that I have to run by inverting the polarity to get a proper deep bass response that integrates seemlessly to my ears (meaning, bass instruments sound like instruments, not like fake bass, you can tell whats a standup bass and whats bass guitar note in the soundstage.)They are not subwoofers, but bass drivers up to 95hz. There is probably something to do with their position newr the corners in their own open baffle using the corners as bass horns…? Maybe Side track thought, Im curious, since bass waves under 100hz are omni directional, it makes sense to have bass drivers operating in that frequency range be located in the room where bass response is best allowing for the most head room and minimizing the load on the amplifier rather than paired with the rest of the frequencies like most speakers try and do. In this case it works really well. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Geno on 02/15/24 at 00:03:42 Hi Loic. Seems like I remember that you are using a Crown sub amp? Likewise here, as well as W-15’s, and have a question about your connections. When you say “reverse polarity” are you speaking strictly from the amp to two connectors for each channel? Reason I ask, is in regard to the dual voice coils - do you have yours run in parallel? Thanks, and again, welcome! Geno |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 02/15/24 at 00:06:26 I run both coils in parallel (I find it’s a cleaner sound) and I just reverse the positives negatives at the amp. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by 1stwattlife on 02/15/24 at 23:22:17 This thread is getting good! I will leave a +1 here for dynamics, soundstage and presentation with these speakers. I feel like they help my listening posture quite alot. It takes away the feeling of watching a movie from the first row of the theater ( particularly in electronic music where sounds can be thrown so far over your head already), and presents the soundstage as if you are say on a mezzanine level but still at a front row distance... I think.... that is the only way I can describe it at the moment. These speakers are my new second favorite. 8-) |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 02/17/24 at 20:05:03 I made a demo of how these speakers sound.  https://youtu.be/6ihe-HY2Bsk?si=dzPJwaT4XcZTpEOE |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Kamran on 02/17/24 at 23:09:34 Amazing |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Brian on 02/19/24 at 03:45:27 It sounds the same no matter where you walk in the room! Just as it said on the tin. Brian |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 03/07/24 at 21:48:13 Steve let me know if I am crazy… the idea is, remove the direct sound waves coming at you, by shooting the sound upward to the ceiling, in the process reducing significantly the reflections from the side wall and almost all reflections from the floor no longer apply. This means, you are hearing reflections from ceiling as a primary source of sound, which seems to be making the sound stage MUCH better. Compared to front firing which generate more sources of sound waves projected at you through more reflections plus direct projection. so a front firing speaker would have 5 (more for OB) sources of sound waves hitting your ears at the listening position: 1- the speaker itself firing at you. 2- the floor reflections created by the front firing speaker 3- the right wall reflections created by the front firing speaker 4- the left wall reflections created by the front firing speaker 5- the ceiling reflections created by the front firing speaker. Then apply those 6 sources for various frequency ranges that all move at different speed and impacting time arrivals... it gets complicated to properly visualize how man sound waves hit your ears in a front firing speaker setup. The ladybugs have, really... 1 source of sound waves hitting the listening position. 1- the ceiling reflections from the top firing driver. ..... the driver itself does not fire at your listening position so no direct projection (it fires upwards) the driver creates minimal reflections off the right wall the driver creates minimal reflections off the left wall the driver almost creates no reflections on the floor... (some, but it's WAY less) So, is this saying that the reflections off the ceiling, create a better sonic experience than direct sound waves? the answer... I DONT KNOW. :-) |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 03/09/24 at 17:50:09 Hi Loic, In my room there is no ceiling... well it's 12 to 17 feet with no drywall, just paper faced fiberglass. So I think most of what I am hearing over here is direct energy from the driver. Steve |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Loic on 03/09/24 at 18:05:34 That makes sense. My room is 7.5 foot ceilings, with wood diffusion.. and the rest is typicalwith some absorption.. |
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Title: Re: A new impossible speaker design by Steve D. Post by Steve Deckert on 03/12/24 at 03:29:39 That is why I loved your design with the adjustable ratchet able angle finder : ). No doubt with a lower ceiling at play things will be different. I know that our ERRx radial speakers are actually more enjoyable, bigger, higher in such a room. I think you're on to something with your baffle design and the fast 8. The Audio Gods are watching you.  |
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