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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Turntable clamp vs weight https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1691942977 Message started by Matchstikman on 08/13/23 at 17:09:37 |
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Title: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Matchstikman on 08/13/23 at 17:09:37 What are your thoughts on this? |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by CAJames on 08/13/23 at 17:24:58 I'm on team clamp. I don't like the idea of gratuitous weight on the turntable bearing. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Donnie on 08/13/23 at 17:48:37 I'm by no way a vinyl guy, but I am interested in the physics and the machinations that are used in turntables. What kind of bearings are used on turntables? I assume just round steel ball bearings? Do any turntables use ceramic bearings or pressurized plain bearings? Does edge clamping help? I remember that craze went through here a few years ago. Aren't there some turntables running on air bearings? I would think that any weight variances would need to be adjusted for on that kind of setup. As I sit here thinking of different problems like torque slippage of the album causing variances it kinda boggles the mind. I think I will stay digital because I don't need another rabbit hole to fall into. But if it truly does sound better..... |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Matchstikman on 08/13/23 at 18:33:09 The clamp or weight is basically used to keep the vinyl in place. The weight apparently can also flatten a slightly warped album. I currently use a Clearaudio clamp which is not really a clamp and it is also not weighted. I do have a weight but the weight seems to me to add to the abuse of the motor/spinner which I don't think can be good. A clamp screws on to the spindle and I don't think I want to go in the direction either. Does vinyl sound better than digital these days? Well, to me, it definitely sounds different. My digital path is complete for me and I've got an itch to do something so I've been tinkering with vinyl for the last half year or so. However, vinyl is more fun in group settings like it was back in the day. You friends over, you put on some vinyl, you look at the vinyl cover and the artwork, and then you trip down memory lane. Not so much with a CD or streaming. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Lon on 08/13/23 at 18:37:14 I use a Groovetracer record weight engineered to match with Rega products. I have all the Groovetracer mods for my turntable as well as the Rega TTPSU and their latest Reference belt. In my opinion it does make a subtle audible difference as well as makes playback of even slightly warped or dished records possible or better. And using this for six years or so has had no noticeable negative effect on the turntable. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by CAJames on 08/13/23 at 18:43:39 Quote:
Indeed. Mine is. Both the platter and the linear tracking arm are supported by air. Quote:
Agree that good digital vs. analog is more "different" rather than "better" these days. There is a lot going on with both, esp. if you stream and want to pursue an "audiophile" network connection. I don't stream (long story) but my CDs and files sound so good these days, and are so convenient that I haven't spun an album in months. I blame you for a lot of that because you turned me on to Denafrips. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Kamran on 08/13/23 at 20:54:27 Speaking of turntables, I was wondering the other day, how many people use a linear power supply to power their respective motors? Or is a LPSU more of a digital source gear necessity? |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Paul2 on 08/13/23 at 22:10:41 These are all questions for Mikey Freemer! I'm sure he could write a long story on the subject. I have had vinyl rigs for many years. There have been some nicer equipment here. Had a VPI cleaning machine, all the chemicals, special liners for the cleaned records. Up until recently digital could not compete with vinyl for sound quality. In todays world digital sounds pretty darn good to me. Two years ago I gifted my complete vinyl setup and record collection to a young music lover. Just trying to "Pay it Forward". No regrets! |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by hdrider on 08/15/23 at 00:11:28 I used a Audio Technica record weight when I was using a Denon DP-47 direct drive table and on my Kyocera PL-901 belt drive and I never saw or heard any negative impact on the table. The SOTA I have now has a vacuum hold down system and a reflex clamp. Very happy with that. But I have to think that adding a weight to a TT that may be a little less robust would have a negative impact...thinking about my first table which was a Connoisseur BD-2. Great question for Mikey. Happy listening, Chris. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by CAJames on 08/15/23 at 01:56:55 Quote:
I don't want to be snarky but if the weight added a little more wear on the bearing or/and belt and/or motor how would you expect to hear it? I'll claim that just like tubes that (very) slowly degrade over time the only realistic way to tell may be to compare to new TT of the same make and model. And to be clear I'm not saying that a weight does anything bad for sure, esp. if you only have a table for a few years before you move on. But I've had mine for almost 40, and replaced the belt a couple of times, so for my money I'm happy not to add any more stress to the system, whether or not it actually makes a difference. JMO/YMMV/FWIW and all that. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by armstdav on 08/15/23 at 18:29:10 I've tried both, and I use a weight (roughly 1#) because it's more convenient than a clamp. My tables over the last 20 years or so have all been direct drive, currently a JVC TT-81. I haven't noticed any negative effects from the added weight. One table had the slightest bit of bearing noise that the weight actually helped. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by 4krow on 08/15/23 at 23:07:48 Kamran, The idea of using a power supply or speed controller for your TT probably has as much to do with the particular rig that it is being used with. I just bought a little Project Speed box for my belt driven TT. I have not used it yet for reasons unknown. I actually believe that it would be better if a power supply/speed control had a feedback loop like used in many DD TT. As for the sound of vinyl vs digital, all things being equal, I am impressed as to how far some digital has come and glad for it. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Kahuna Jack on 08/16/23 at 05:05:48 I own and have used both. My Thorens td160 suspension is set up for a weight( Big Ben ?) and is mainly why I use it... helpful on thinner lp's that are cupped or floppy. I like the idea of those lp's being coupled to the platter tighter but I cant say I hear anything different. I have an old ja mitchell clamp that is light and works great if the spindle on given turntable is long enough. I also have a Ariston table with threaded spindle and its own small weight that I use sometimes, sometimes not. |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Same Old DD on 08/16/23 at 13:09:36 I have used both. My old Thorens had a threaded spindle and it was easy to use a clamp. It had been modified. My favorite table is forty years old as one mentioned above and if it was easy to add a clamp, I would prefer that method of stability, but with that table I just use a light weight out of mainly convenience. I also do not notice a lot of difference with or without the weight, unless I am playing something with heavy bass content OR a classical piece with very quiet passages at times. I'm not sure how adding the weight improves a typical album, but I feel it is like additional mass, up to the point of dimishing returns, just seems to stabilize some moving things. I have noticed that when using the weight on some bass heavy music albums, the close proximity of speakers to cartridge/tonearm tends to feedback at super low frequencies considerably less than if I skipped the weight, altogether. I know my speakers can not reproduce these tones (I would consider them as distortion) and I can not hear the tones with just my ears, BUT, I can certainly hear in the music the ill effect of the ULF beginning to create a tone loop of feedback, if that begins to happen through excess volume during playback. I have a very heavy sand box I made to isolate the table (old school trick) from these frequencies and it works well, handles most of the interference, and the weight on the vinyl takes the isolation from ULF one step further. In other words, I can get my system much louder with my bass heavy metal albums with the weight on before any perceptible interference occurs. I know most do not worry about some of this, but a few of us still have a wild head banger vein throbbing at times for me to drop the reins and let it buck! |
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Title: Re: Turntable clamp vs weight Post by Kamran on 08/17/23 at 05:32:09 Thanks 4krow—good to hear from you! Last year I made a decision to concentrate on my digital rig as I couldn’t do economic justice to both, nor was I spending too much time listening to vinyl given the convenience and quality of hi-res digital. My Project Carbon Debut is connected to my AV receiver and HT setup and one of the other reasons I didn’t add it to my main rig is because I didn’t want to introduce its wall wart to my dedicated source gear circuit. I was interested in the clamp that Pro-Ject sells as part of its accessories list, but haven’t pulled the trigger as I continue to invest in my digital rig. |
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