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AUDIO FORUMS >> Room Treatment >> New Room, Needing Some Help
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Message started by Mannytheseacow on 05/29/23 at 01:14:33

Title: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Mannytheseacow on 05/29/23 at 01:14:33

Hi, all. I recently moved to a new home and needing some help with setting up my system. The good news is that the entire basement space is mine to do with as I please. The bad news is that it sounds like s***.
I don’t have a good way to share a floor plan, but the room is L shaped. The short base of the L is 22 ft, the long part of the L is 34 ft long. The longer part is 14 ft wide, essentially if it was a 34 x 22 ft rectangle, there is a 12 x 12 box cut out of it.
It is a concrete floor with carpet and pad. There is an angled bar at the foot of the L. The ceiling is only 7 ft high and there is ductwork running 4 ft wide right down the length of the room making it only a 6 ft ceiling there. The ceilings are drywall, with 1/2” wood planked walls.
Currently I have my system set up at the base of the wall in the corner, firing towards the bar. I talked with Dennis at acoustic fields and got the basic response, buy his carbon boxes and foam and go from there. I will probably do that but I could use some help with where to put my system. I’m not liking the corner set up but everywhere else I put it things sound off balance due to asymmetry. Will adding various room treatments take the asymmetry away? Any advice on optimum placement? The low drywalled ceilings have terrible reflections and the low height make treatment prohibitive. Thanks in advance for your input.

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Same Old DD on 05/29/23 at 04:21:11

Last year I moved into a new home.
It amazes me how many of us here have moved to a new home in the past year or two. AND have questions similar to yours.

Manny, when I first took over my little space in my new home, I was terrified, but happy to finally have my own space.
I have two window walls to deal with. It was the only "my own" space I could monopolize. I have ceramic tile set on concrete with drywall everywhere else.
It has worked out fine.
Thick rugs for me, some sound absorption, a bass trap and I am still considering how to work the ceiling. My ceilings are nine feet on one side and almost ten on the other, drywall/plaster - reflective.

You might take Dennis' response and just start adding some movable (DIY? Maybe?) acoustic panels. Move them if you see fit, using what you can hear as a guide at first.

There are many here with far more knowledge and experience in setting up a listening room than I have. I feel certain that many will chime in and offer something useful.

Is there any way you can use "Paint" or some kind of drawing software to create a basic outline with walls, windows, doors, stairs, furniture etc?

Your mearsuring already gives me the feeling that there is much you can do to help balance your room for better acoustical response.

I was terrified that this would NEVER work when I first moved in, but I have had some great listening times with my iffy room, after some work.

I wish you good luck and congratz on the new home!

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Mannytheseacow on 05/29/23 at 13:04:45

Sage advice, DD. Thank you.
In my experience those high ceilings make great listening spaces. With this corner setup I’m currently in the soundstage is very deep and wide but the 7 ft ceiling and 6 ft drop ceiling over my listening chair make me feel like a Smurf. I have some absorption and diffusion in place already but the low ceilings are untreatable so not sure what to do there. Still going to start some diy panels for other places too.
My last home was on a historic register so there wasn’t a lot I could do to it for treatment. Still, the ceilings were high, there was a lot of irregular stone and wood surfaces, and it sounded quite lovely with some absorption hiding in the corners. I am excited to have more flexibility with this new space (and a bar) but it’s going to be a long road to get back to the level of stage and detail I am used to.

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by 4krow on 05/30/23 at 01:59:59

It has been 16 years since my last move, but I remember having to deal with room acoustics from the beginning. Anything that you can think of is usually worth a try. interestingly enough, even tilting the speakers back a bit was useful, or finding a way to put something like a pillow in front of them on the floor, just to hear the difference. Pillows are useful this way as a temporary way to find where treatment might do the most good.

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Mannytheseacow on 05/30/23 at 17:36:14

Attaching a sketch of room, see if this works.

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Geno on 05/30/23 at 18:54:34

Hey Manny.

Dimensions? How long is the stair wall? Length from stair wall to opposite wall?

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Mannytheseacow on 05/30/23 at 19:05:31

Sorry, each square is a foot. Overall dimensions in the original post.

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by will on 05/30/23 at 19:09:58

Wow, lots to work around. The corner system setup makes some sense to me too all things considered... I would add unconventional toe angles and speaker spacing to 4Ks idea of playing with the speaker angles... maybe make reflections more complex and diffused. I wonder what else you have tried for system locations. The drop ceiling really messes with me. I wonder about using it more symmetrically and treating around it some, like 45s in the "corners" between 6.5 and 7.5 foot areas. In two of these ideas below, I was imagining using the stairs like Steve does... an opening centered and behind the speakers. But that 6.5 ceiling part, no room expert here, so out of my range for conceptualizing effects and work arounds without playing with it sort of methodically.

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Geno on 05/30/23 at 20:05:09

Nice layouts Will.

Manny, with the low ceilings in the middle, I like Wills top sketch. You could even back the listening position up a bit more. You will have to experiment, and plan to use lots of treatment.

My listening room in my new house was absolutely awful to start with. Using the hand clap method to test, there was an unbelievable amount of echo at first. But by the time I was done, the hand claps were just about right.

With open baffles, you will prolly need a mix of both diffusion and absorption in that room.

Good luck!

Geno

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Mannytheseacow on 05/30/23 at 23:49:42

Thanks for the input, everyone. I haven’t tried Will’s first two suggestions as they require taking the bar out but did try the third, as well as centered on the long wall and centered on the skinny short wall (180 degrees from Will’s third suggestion). So far the corner is best sans removing bar.
I purchased some carbon and foam today to start the diy absorption process and some heavy 3-layer drapes to cover the windows with.
I’ve played with speaker placement a fair bit but have admittedly lost patience. With all the busyness of moving when I get a chance to listen I only give two or three adjustments before taking the time to enjoy the music. I feel silly realizing now that I haven’t adjusted the baffle angle at all. My baffles normally sit at about 14* and I know the sound changes dramatically as the angle reduces. I’ll add that to my next adjustments.

Title: Re: New Room, Needing Some Help
Post by Mannytheseacow on 06/20/23 at 04:07:35

An update on this topic, I went a couple weeks using the setup as shown in Will’s third image. It was better than the corner, and actually starting to sound really good. But I just couldn’t get over the low ceiling over my head.
I moved the setup 180 degrees a couple days ago into the narrow skinny back corner and am enjoying that for the time being. It feels better although it presents a smaller image.
Currently I only have two 4’x2’ diffusers and a half dozen 50# burlap coffee bags stuffed with old carpet padding and mineral wool insulation scraps for room treatment. There is also a couple hundred pounds of carbon placed around the room in boxes waiting for some membrane absorption to be built. Too many projects on my list for this summer.
I ran through the calculations in the Master Handbook of Acoustics on reverb and room treatment and it confirms what I hear and test results show; little treatment is needed for most the frequency range above 250Hz, but a drastic amount is needed below 250hz. Once I get the treatment in place the setup of the rest of the system in the room may be more amenable to different orientations.