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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Torii MK V break in https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1678944247 Message started by Sai on 03/16/23 at 06:24:06 |
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Title: Torii MK V break in Post by Sai on 03/16/23 at 06:24:06 Do tube amps sound great, then sound a little bad, before they finally break in? Listening yesterday was surreal! Very clear lows, mids, highs were perfectly rolled off like I like it. Today she sounded like she had a bit of a lump in her throat. I will say, I did also introduce a new set of Gold Lion KT-77 tubes about a 20 hours of play time ago. The Torii in total probably has like 40-50 hrs of use on it. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by jec3504 on 03/16/23 at 06:56:19 Sai, Noticed the GL KT-77 tubes sound like what your describing when breaking them in. Give them a little time. Should be fine after 100 hours. Quote:
Mk 5 will take longer to settle and sound better with time. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by will on 03/16/23 at 07:28:09 I agree that 100 for some tubes can make a nice difference. But some power tubes in particular can take a few hundred hours to open up fully. Tubes usually show with a relatively gradual increase in lucidity, complexity and speed as I recall though. I would think a lot of what you describe, sounding good, then duller/slower/less articulate... is the MKV. The way it was for my earlier Toriis anyway. I seem to recall that near 200 hours this becomes less and less noticeable, gradually from more extreme back and forth earlier to subtler back and forth that can go up to ± 300, and then it will continue to just sound better in a more even ways up until 600 or so and beyond. Caps, transformers, chokes, wires, resistors, tubes..... they all take time, separate and together. But when everything in there is new, depending on the system and us, it can be a little irritating and challenging for a while. I am sensitive to this, and used to run new amps in my workshop a lot for the 1st week or so I guess. Been a while since I had a new one. May be a little different with your amp as it has UFO transformers, but... Steve used to say to do 5 hours on and five hours off to accelerate cap seating in particular, the full heating and full cooling causing them to "seat." I thought of that as a good general tool, and of course it helps more than just caps. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by Sai on 03/16/23 at 13:34:13 Thank you for sharing your experiences. I foresee a few long listening sessions in the near future for sure :) |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by will on 03/16/23 at 14:57:09 Yes, enjoy the listening and burnin will surely pass! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by JMeader on 03/16/23 at 16:29:14 I just got my Torii Jr V2 approaching 200 hours. My process was to use a long play and let it play day and night at very low volume just to get the hours of use. Initial sound was good but not significantly different from my prior amp. I think this was in part do to my speakers and room being in sync and a well established sound stage. At around the 100 hour mark things started getting better, ie my sound stage was enhanced, snare drum and cymbal decay was much better than anything I had before. BTW this is my first tube amp so still sensing the differences Enjoy the music |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by GroovySauce on 03/17/23 at 13:34:32 50 hours you're not even close to having the amp settle. The first 100 hours with my MKV was a wild ride. Sound stage would be expansive—endless, 15 minutes later it would collapse and sound anemic. 200+ hours and it will be a different amp. 500+ and it's going to be steady, I really want to say 1,000 hours. However 500+ is a good target. I noted that my MKV settled a lot faster than my MKIV. JMeader started a thread about his Torii Jr. v2, That should give you a good perspective. GL KT77 are my preferred tube in the MKV. They usually are solid by 20-30 hours. I'm surprised at how great they sound fresh. I highly recommend getting a Stylus Timer and using it for tube life. https://www.amazon.com/LP-GEAR-Stylus-Timer-StylusTimer/dp/B07ZPDX8Z3?ref_=ast_sto_dp I have 3. 1 for my stylus, 1 for tube life and 1 for burn in time. I'm going to buy one or two more. I'm kicking myself I didn't start using these when they first came out. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by jec3504 on 03/17/23 at 14:07:46 Quote:
They start off with extended and hanging notes in the mids and highs. Sounds great and wild. Wish they would stay like that. The balance overall levels out nicely. Interesting tube to experience new. I give all new production Russian tubes a little extra time to level out. Edit: Noticed a rectifier vibration at first. Long story short breaking in GL KT77s were noteworthy. Could just be me. Was interested if anyone else had noticed. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by JMeader on 03/17/23 at 16:12:26 @Sai Another thing to consider. You have a Denafrips Dac, This is probably set to sound best with your old amp. Try changing some of the options within you Dac. I use Audirvana Studio ( paid version PC software ). Within Audirvana there are many options which change how the music files are processed prior to sending to my DAC. My previous settings were sub optimal with my new Decware amp especially after the 100 hour mark, so needed to be changed. The key is to re-look at what options you have within your system and play with them to see what sound best with your new amp. Basically maximizing system integration Good Luck and enjoy the Music |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by will on 03/17/23 at 17:23:27 JEC, Years ago, once I got my Torii 3 system opened and speeded up, GL KT77s became a little too much here... impressive, but a little in the face for my setup and me. But I did love them for the time I had an SE34 and thought their extension, openness, clarity, articulation, and dynamics were quite beautiful with that amp and speakers, etc. I did take to using 7DJ8/PCC88s for quite a while with my Torii 3 though, giving some similar things but at the inputs... just one of many variables for defining ultimate power tube preferences. I feel sure I could tune and really enjoy a set of GL KT77 now if I had some. But I have stayed with 6L6 types for a long time, and really like those I have for their delicacy and super fine detail/space abilities. I have noticed heavily made Russian tubes taking their time too, but I do recall the KT77 as comparatively quite good to start off like you and GS. I think this made me less sensitive to noticing as they burn in, their growing more complex with speed, space and finer detail. I do recall this, but not the timing. I can say that here, the GL KT66 was the longest power tube burnin I can remember...well over 200 hours as I recall. But the GL KT77, pretty open and lively right off... seems it would be a good thing with a new amp, the solid, clean and dynamic presentation overwhelming some of the amp burnin antics enough that they are not as in the way? What JMeader is pointing to seems in the same neighborhood to me... tune the front end to be more solid, complex, spacious and complete, and it can help with system balance while balancing some of the up and downs of burnin. I am always tuning the front end as needed, and have used more open and pretty fast tubes with burnin. I wonder how much time you have on your MKV JEC. If the KT77 experience was with your new amp, I think the "extended and hanging notes in the mids and highs" could be associated with caps burning in too. Especially with smaller nice film caps as power supply bypasses, and in the signal path, if enough value to act this way (with all the rest), they can lean toward taking a little long to release the clarifying surge they contribute to, and I think burnin can help solve this. How it appears to me anyway. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by jec3504 on 03/17/23 at 18:11:36 Thanks will, this post grab my attention being new amp and KT 77s. Guess I could relate. Last 3 months running all the same tubes. Could not be happier. All my bases seemed to be covered. Happy not to have any hum issues with any of the Decware products. They have passed all the tests. Love the GL KT 77s. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by will on 03/17/23 at 18:20:42 Sounds really good. Having fun! |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by jec3504 on 03/17/23 at 18:29:35 Appreciate all your insights and experience over the last couple years. Thank you. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by will on 03/17/23 at 19:37:08 You are welcome JEC. I am glad I could be of some help. |
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Title: Re: Torii MK V break in Post by Sai on 03/19/23 at 00:19:59 Thanks for the awesome insights y’all. I’m going to patiently listen and honestly even enjoy the changes over burn in…. Also, excellent idea on the “Stylus Timers.” Going to pick up a couple of them now. |
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