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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Western Electric 300B Warranty https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1675790606 Message started by Doug on 02/07/23 at 17:23:26 |
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Title: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 02/07/23 at 17:23:26 With a bit of trepidation I have initiated correspondence with Western Electric regarding what will likely be diagnosed as a bad WE300B tube. I bought the tubes from WE eight months ago and they have approximately 1,200 hours of use. With the Western Electric 300B tubes installed in my Cary 300SEI amp, the amp’s “tube fuse” blows within 20 to 30 minutes after the amp is turned on, and it doesn’t matter whether the amp is idling or playing music. The tube fuse does not blow when using my Sophia Electric Classic 300B’s or with my stock Genalex Gold Lion PX-300B tubes (which have now been sold). The tube fuse is positioned in the 300SEI’s circuitry to protect the huge output transformers and a few pricey caps. Cary’s lead tech advised me that the tube fuse normally only blows when one of the 300B output tubes has failed or is on it’s way toward failure, and it does appear that one of my WE300B tubes is heading toward that end. So, I am about to fill out the required RMA form and will probably be sending both WE300B tubes back to Western Electric for evaluation and analysis. I did receive a very cordial written response from Western Electric this morning about the possible tube failure. I’ll keep everyone posted on this WE warranty situation. In the mean time, I will continue breaking in my Sophia Electric Classic 300B’s, which are turning out to be fantastic music makers! For those wondering, the only speakers the WE300B’s have driven are a pair of 10 ohm Voxativ 1.6 full rangers that have an efficiency rating of 101db at 1 watt…..and, the tube bias has always been set between 70 and 72 mA. With 90% of the music I listen to being baroque, classical, and romantic chamber music, these tubes have been coasting down hill most of their lives, and they rarely, if ever, break a sweat. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Lon on 02/07/23 at 17:31:57 Well, that's an uncharacteristic bummer, hope that Western Electric diagnoses this quickly and makes good. Glad to hear you are really enjoying the Sophia Electric 300B Classic tubes! |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by CAJames on 02/07/23 at 18:41:23 Disappointing that you need to avail yourself of the warranty, but very interested in your experience. Esp. since this is not an outright tube failure. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Tony on 02/08/23 at 00:46:35 Doug, Sorry to hear of your tube misfortune, and good luck with your next steps. It does sound like the WE will stand behind you. This seems like one of those "what happens if..." situations that some of us have wondered about, so appreciate your keeping us in the loop. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by johnnycopy on 02/08/23 at 03:04:31 Better than my luck with a pair of psvane. They were a total loss with no warranty after failure. I purchased a pair of Eml xls with a similar 5 year warranty |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 02/25/23 at 18:04:44 Western Electric received my 300B tubes for analysis nine days ago. Yesterday afternoon I opened an email from Western Electric with instructions to call them at a given phone number. I dialed the number and a guy answered “hello”. It took about twenty seconds of back-and-forth before I was able to identify the guy who answered as Charles Whitener, CEO of Western Electric. He had personally evaluated my tubes and found them to be in like-new condition and functioning perfectly. He went on to explain his hypothesis on why the tube fuse on my Cary 300SEI was blowing. Charles told me that WE300B tubes have a higher current output than other 300B tubes and that the higher current was most likely the cause of the 0.25 amp fuse blowing. He suggested bumping the fuse rating up to 1/3 amp to resolve the fuse blowing issue, and he offered to send a couple of fuses when he returns the tubes to me. Trusting Mr. Whitener’s judgement, I agreed to try the bigger fuses. A 0.08 amp increase in the fuse rating doesn’t seem like a big deal to me…. anyone have experience with using slightly larger rated fuses in amplifiers? |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by GroovySauce on 02/25/23 at 19:16:50 My guess is that fuse is there to protect the tube. And the amp and not have your home burn down in a catastrophic failure. In the MKV manual it says .250mA or .5mA for the rectifier tube fuse. I would be 100% comfortable running a slightly higher spec especially if the tube manufacturer recommends it. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by CAJames on 02/25/23 at 19:21:13 Yeah, 0.08 amps doesn't seem like very much, but it is a 33% increase over factory so it is significant. I personally haven't had any need to tweak fuse values but I know the Synergistic Research site suggests buying "one higher" to avoid unnecessarily blowing a high dollar fuse. My (limited and largely theoretical) electrical experience certainly confirms a fuse rating is more of a guideline than a rule. I expect WE has significant experience with this, and I wouldn't hesitate to follow their advice, if that is your concern. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 02/25/23 at 20:35:30 Thanks for the advice Groovy and CA. I feel better about moving forward with the larger value fuse. The “tube fuse” on this amp actually protects the output transformers along with a few expensive caps. The head Cary technician also told me that the tube fuse can sometimes save the 300B output tubes in the case of runaway bias current, but that is not it’s primary job. Again, thanks for the feedback! Doug |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Steve Deckert on 02/26/23 at 05:16:16 Quote:
The fuse size is .25A or 250mA and 5A for the rectifier tube's heater. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by GroovySauce on 02/26/23 at 13:55:09 Steve and everyone else, I really mucked that one up! I posted from the Torii MKV Manual in a 300b thread. I used it as an example of fuse ratings being slightly flexible. Also, confusing as I messed up writing fuse values. From the Torii MKV Manual: Quote:
Quote:
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 03/04/23 at 02:15:23 Here’s an update on my WE300B warranty situation. With my Western Electric 300B tubes testing as new, Mr. Whitener returned them to me. Along with the tubes were a couple of 1/3 amp fuses which he believes will completely resolve my tube blowing problem without any harm to my amp or the tubes. When I opened the box, I was puzzled to find two navy tube Western Electric boxes sealed on both ends, as if they were new. Looking over the boxes and the packing slip I also discovered that the serial numbers were different than the tubes I purchased last May. For some unknown reason, Mr. Whitener replaced my 10 month old tubes with a brand spanking new pair. On top of an already excellent service experience, Western Electric covered the return shipping—UPS 2nd Day Air! I’m speechless. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Lon on 03/04/23 at 02:23:39 Awesome Doug! That's one reason you pay so much for these tubes. . . and a good reason. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by CAJames on 03/04/23 at 02:43:48 That's very interesting. My first thought is, if my 10 month old tubes really tested like new I'd rather have them back than go through breaking in another pair. But it is hard to complain about the service. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 03/04/23 at 04:10:07 CAJames, that was my first thought as well. And after several hours of listening this evening, I wish I had my original pair back in the amp. I wouldn’t say the new tubes sound unpleasant, but they’re no where near the sound of my well broken in ones. I told Mr. Whitener that I am curious why he sent a new pair of tubes, but haven’t received a reply yet. My best guess is that one of my originals was dropped and broken. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Ghostship on 03/04/23 at 16:48:51 Thanks for posting this...I feel much better about dropping $750/tube. Anyone can claim they have a 5-year warranty but obviously, WE stands behind its products. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by CAJames on 04/05/23 at 17:28:44 Hey Doug, just curious if you ever got an answer on why the sent you new tubes instead of your old ones? |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by funch on 04/06/23 at 05:20:55 For those of you who have or will order these, be sure and send in the warranty card ASAP to activate the five year warranty. I'm aware of a situation in which an individual did not, and when a tube failed, his claim was denied because of not sending the card. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Ghostship on 04/07/23 at 10:35:32 Thanks for the reminder, funch. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 04/08/23 at 16:17:55 CAJames, No, I did not get an explanation for why a new pair of WE300B tubes was sent to me. However, and quite unexpectedly, a fresh five year warranty was established on the new pair of tubes. Not a bad outcome, but it still would be nice to understand the reason behind the swap. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 03/24/24 at 02:54:33 During the past 10 months I have had my Cary 300SEI sitting on the sidelines while the First Watt J2 that I bought late last spring has been breaking in. The J2 has kept me very happy, but a few weeks ago I decided that I needed a little 300B magic so I swapped the Cary back into the system. (Side Note: Since Western Electric replaced my beautiful sounding original pair of WE300B tubes in March 2023, the sound has never been as good as it had been with my original pair. Interestingly, I never did find out why my original pair of tubes was not returned to me following their analysis. My best guess is that one or both tubes were damaged while they were testing them. Anyway, the replacement pair never sounded as good as my original pair--not even close.) On Saturday morning, three weeks ago, I turned the system on and began playing music as I listened from other areas of the house while performing household duties. In the early evening hours I went to the listening room for some concentrated listening. The sound was good, but nothing like it had been before Western Electric replaced my original pair of tubes. I had been listening for a couple of hours and suddenly noticed the right channel getting louder, so I opened my eyes, looked at my amp, and saw the right channel 300B tube red plating. I jumped up, ran to the amp, and powered it off. Upon examination, the tube looked fine, but not knowing the consequences of the red plating incident, I contacted Western Electric to seek advice. They asked me to return both tubes for evaluation. Yesterday I received an email from Western Electric stating that the questionable tube "showed a fully depleted getter flash, indicating a gassy tube." They went on to explain that the gassy tube was likely caused by rough handling during shipping. I was happily surprised to learn that the tube has been defective all along. Western Electric is sending a new tube matching the specs of the other good tube. I've got my fingers crossed, hoping that I'll again get the beautiful sound of my original pair of WE300B tubes. |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Kamran on 03/24/24 at 03:11:17 Doug, that is really unfortunate. Hopefully, the second replacement tube is free of any defects. At least they sent you both replacements from the initial complaint. I sent both of mine back and only received one replacement back and a couple of weeks later I sent the one (still noisy) original tube back again and they begrudgingly replaced it (noting that they couldn’t find anything wrong with it). 250 hrs later, so far so good, but then my original pair didn’t start developing noise until close to the 500 hr break in. Not a big fan of the warranty card process. I have sent three back (2 for the original, one for the replacement, and still need to send the 4th one). |
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Title: Re: Western Electric 300B Warranty Post by Doug on 04/09/24 at 23:27:40 Update on my Western Electric tube situation: I received a replacement for the defective tube that was determined to be "gassy". After several days of break-in I'm ready to say that the sound quality is equal to that of a the original pair that I purchased two years ago. These Western Electric 300B tubes, complemented by three Cryotone 6SN7's in my Cary 300SEI, produce incredibly beautiful music, and we're still very early in the break-in process. You can't beat a five year tube warranty! |
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