Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1650697333 Message started by Matchstikman on 04/23/22 at 08:02:13

Title: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by Matchstikman on 04/23/22 at 08:02:13 So, there was a time I used a subwoofer.  It took work to get it to blend it with the mains.  Then, I got some full range speakers and I chucked the subwoofer.  Then, I ran across this video by the Audiophiliac, suggesting that adding a subwoofer to a full range speakers could really add more magic to the sound. Anyone try this with full range towers? Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYMng8AS-M

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by EdwardT on 04/23/22 at 12:29:13 I have two way towers and I notice a distinct improvement in imaging and instrument focus from adding two subs for discreet L&R output. I don’t why that result would be different for a full range tower but stranger things have happened. One unlikely thing did happen, the addition of the dedicated low cabs brought a new depth and spread to the recordings reverb, I really notice that on back ground vocals and percussion. I find this superior in every way to a mono sub.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by Matchstikman on 04/25/22 at 17:16:24 EdwardT, that's interesting. What are the frequency specs on your towers? How low does your subwoofer go? And, about where to you crossover the subs? I'm think of getting a Rel T/9.  I've always been a fan of Rel subs for music and the T/9 specs have it going down to 27hz.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by Dana on 04/25/22 at 18:51:08 I'm using two old MK sealed subs with my SpeakerLab corner horns.  I just added the second one and  I can hear what Mr. Guttenberg is talking about. There are times when it sounds unreal.  Unfortunately I cant find a consistent setting for the subs.  It's difficult to match subs with really efficient speakers as the volume slopes of the subs and the speakers don't match. The other issue is the subs seem to be canceling out each other where they're placed in the room.  I've moved them out away from the wall and dropped the crossover frequencies but it varies so much from recording to recording that what sounds good on one recording overpowers the room on another.  A pain for sure but it sure sounds good the rare times I get it right. I'm going to try stacking them and see if that helps.  Any suggestions welcome.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by EdwardT on 04/25/22 at 21:09:03 Hey Matchstikman, Here’s a screen shot from my iPhone for the X-SLS towers:

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by EdwardT on 04/25/22 at 21:10:19 And here's the subwoofer, crossed at maybe 30hz but I know the silkscreen numbers are just a suggestion, you can see that Klipsch does not believe in a steep roll off:

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by EdwardT on 04/25/22 at 21:16:36 I have a room resonance to treat to adjust that low end bump in the 160hz range, the subs crossed at 30hz do extend the very low end but I’m contemplating new amps to achieve a steeper roll off. I don't have very much sub volume dialed in either, I just used a Schiit Sys for a volume control and turned it down until the localized sub output disappeared. The handy Sys switchable output is an effective sub mute so I can compare on vs off, too. Because some recordings don’t bother to filter out uncontrolled audio below 25hz it’s really useful. This is screenshot with everything @75dba pink noise and the iPhone at the apex of the equilateral triangle and what I believe to be the mic between the tweeter and woofer.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by ginny on 01/04/23 at 15:48:11 Hello friends... I am considering the purchase of dual subs, and need help from the Decware family... My room is open concept @ a very caverness 32’ wide, 25’ deep with vaulted ceiling approximately 13’ at the peak (LR, dining, foyer, kitchen). The system I have (listed in my tag line) was fantastic in the LR of our previous residence, but since the move into the current location, the bass gets swallowed up in the larger space leaving the overall balance quite poor. I am probably 70% music to 30% movie, and prefer the dual sub route to maintain soundstage balance and hopefully bring back the joy of music listening. So far, I have selected the sealed over ported model and have considered a pair of either the SVS SB-3000 or Rel T/9x. I believe the pair of SVS’s would be sufficient and are better suited for both music and movies in this large space, but my fear is that the Rel’s may not. The Rel T/9x reviews sound great for music (which is most appealing to me) but may lack the horsepower in the large space. Thank you so much in advance for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to any feedback -Mark

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by 4krow on 01/04/23 at 20:15:20 To date the room that I ever had for listening was similar in volume to what you have. I realize that this may be a huge generalization. Having said that, I will always prefer the large room and its trouble to a small room,,, God forbid a small Square room! So in this experience of having the large room, I used two passive subs at that time. For reasons unknown, this was also the best bass that I have heard in my system. Now fast forward to other rooms and times, I would much more in favor of an active sub that is of the accelerometer or coil sensing design. What I have seen with the sensing design sold by Rythmik Audio is that bass is much more accurate, at least out of the sub. Of course what happens after that is room dependent as well as other factors. I won't go into those because that can become a distraction of sorts all to itself. Yes, I would recommend two subs and a good mic/measuring set up. For myself, I have used the Velodyne SMS-1 which will make all of the needed adjustments for you. OTOH, when you see its output graph, you can do that with the Rythmik subs yourself. The point is to know where to start by using the measurement system in the first place. And yes, trust your ears. After all in the end it is about you and not some microphone.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by Dominick on 01/05/23 at 06:55:13 I have an old Home Theater Velodyne active sub that I use with my ERR tower speakers.  It has a 10” front firing and a 12” down firing and it is a beast!!  I have them crossed over just right at the point where my tower speakers fall off and I keep the volume level fairly low.  I want my main speakers to do the majority of the work and my sub to take care of only the low frequencies that my towers cannot produce. I think I keep them crossed over at like 30 Hz.   My living room is like 32x30 with 18 foot vaulted ceilings and an open concept floor plan that spills out into my kitchen and dining room…so I am a dealing a large space as well.   Two things I can recommend once you get your subs… play around with the sub’s location by moving it around the room to find it’s best location where it sounds the best.  The front corner is theoretically not the best spot in general.  Also…take the subwoofer off the floor and place it on a pedestal.  Mine is about 1 ft. off the floor.   Dom

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by Rivieraranch on 01/05/23 at 13:55:54 Hey Dom: I have been using a subwoofer for the first time. All this BS about cross over point, graphs and all that isn't helpful. Just keep moving it around and tuning it until it sounds right. I did that and it came out real well. Turns out that it is in the right rear of the listening position.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by MikeinMontana on 01/05/23 at 16:02:13 4Krow:"The point is to know where to start by using the measurement system in the first place. And yes, trust your ears. After all in the end it is about you and not some microphone." Rivieraranch:"Just keep moving it around and tuning it until it sounds right. I did that and it came out real well. Turns out that it is in the right rear of the listening position." We also have a room very similar~ Dominick: "My living room is like 32x30 with 18 foot vaulted ceilings and an open concept floor plan that spills out into my kitchen and dining room…so I am a dealing a large space as well.~~Two things I can recommend once you get your subs… play around with the sub’s location by moving it around the room to find it’s best location where it sounds the best."~~  [smiley=icqlite20.png]   We have a pair of Klipsch Chorus 2's in a room very similar to Dominicks..About the same dimensions, large open floor with high 12' cathedral ceiling in middle. Ceiling starts at 8 feet either end. Two very large rugs in center and left side at dining.  Kitchen and dining to the left side. Rest of house has 8 foot ceilings.  It took me months to get the subs sounding like I like them to. Small adjustments over time. Including phase and levels. Phase mostly for two toward rear of room. Front corner one is at 0. If they seem sort of loud and or localized..turn them down a bit at a time. I started with two..and now have three. General word on the street is go in two's, but, 3 are working for me fine now. Your going to need to play with location a lot! Your ears in your room are all that matter. ~Mike  [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by Dominick on 01/05/23 at 22:42:26 Hey Jim: I agree…I just kept moving my sub around the room until I was happy with it.  My sub location is just behind my listening position off to the left.  I only mentioned about me using the cross over in conjunction with my main speakers because like everything else we do… it’s just another tweak.   Dom

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by dank on 01/05/23 at 23:05:12 I have dual subs in my shop (listening room) and they sound better when they are both in mono, rather than stereo.  Don't forget to at least try them in mono...it might surprise you. Dan

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by ginny on 01/06/23 at 11:54:07 This is all good information.... I really like the Rel acoustic T/9X because of the fact that it was geared more towards the musical side with great nuance and detail for music. I also like that it uses a high-level cable that connects to the speaker’s output on the amp then to the sub through a “SpeakON” connector input on the sub which converts it to a low-level signal giving it the same signal as your main speakers. (Should be a good thing right?) I don’t Believe a pair of these would be sufficient in my space so I continued on with the search. After watching many reviews I was intrigued by the Rel HT/1508. It’s said that these are great for home theater and fast enough for music so I thought a pair of these would be sufficient. Although I’m not sure if these use the same high-level cable that the T/9X uses, so if not that would require another cable search and purchase. Fast forward to last night... I decided to pull the trigger on a pair of HT/1508’s that were discounted from $1899 to $1499. And wouldn’t you know it they’re out of stock and everybody’s out of stock for that matter because it’s been replaced by the 1510. Funny how things work that way... so back to the drawing board to begin the search again🤪. For some reason I was drawn to the Rel acoustic line and who knows, I may start out with one 1510 for now and purchase a second one next year or go back to the drawing board which could lead me to an even better choice.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by Ghostship on 01/07/23 at 12:37:11 Have you contacted REL? You can give them the specifics of your system and the exact measurement of your room and adjacent layout, and they can recommend a solution that will work optimally for your situation. They actually prefer their customers do this before purchasing.

Title: Re: Subwoofers and full range speakers/towers Post by ginny on 01/07/23 at 22:44:45 I ended up speaking with Upscale Audio. Unfortunately the HT/1510 would have required a Bluetooth transmitter/receiver to be able to properly connect to the Torii MKIV. That was a deal breaker for me because it would have downgraded the sound quality as well as create a 12-15 millisecond delay. For all I know it sounds worse than it is as far as signal delay and probably would have been totally fine. But the real issue would have been the absence of volume control. So what I ended up going with is 1 S/812 for now and a second S/812 next year as they have a more preferred way of connecting to the Torii via a High Level Neutrik Speakon cable that connects from the speaker posts to the sub. Thanks again Decware fam.

Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.2.2! YaBB © 2000-2008. All Rights Reserved.