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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
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Message started by Dr3wman on 11/04/21 at 17:57:16

Title: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Dr3wman on 11/04/21 at 17:57:16

Andrew Robinson reviewed the Zen Master Speakers. Speaker wait times are about to go up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ7HznfA0YA

Title: Re: Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Palomino on 11/04/21 at 18:11:31

I thought this was a good review and mirrored many of my observations. I loaned my pair to a friend and haven't seen them in over a year...

Title: Re: Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Archie on 11/04/21 at 18:30:49

I have the F15 in the large baffle, DIY, and I'd disagree with just about every "negative" that he brought up. In my space they are "omni-directional" and not at all listener position sensitive. They also completely disappear. One big difference in our rooms is that I don't have side walls anywhere close to the speakers and my ceiling is steeply vaulted. He doesn't appear to have room treatment (me neither) and his room is many time smaller than mine. Lastly, my bass is quite good. While not quite as low as with my HR1s, it is deep and big. I'd say this is likely due to my bigger baffles. I 100% agree with his observation regarding the importance of tilting them back.

As far as his "positives," yes and more so!

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Palomino on 11/04/21 at 19:46:19

I agree with him about needing to pull them out from the front wall and his toe in angle. Mine disappear, even in my small room. But I have quite a few treatments. I didn’t have to futz nearly as much as he says.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/04/21 at 22:15:30

Room treatment or at least somewhat speaker friendly rooms are going to make everything happen a lot easier. I would love to have them both over for a listen to the same speakers in our room and video the look on their faces because I think the omni effect they have in here as well as the chest thumping bass would have been exactly what they were missing. The comment would undoubtedly be "I can't believe these are the same speakers", or "how did you get the sub to blend in so well?" when in fact there wasn't one.

But, my guess is that many if not most have a room that is a lot more like Robinson's than like Decware's, so the review is more accurate to what you can expect in a similar environment.

Guess I should have sent him a ZROCK2 :)

-Steve

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by DancingSea on 11/07/21 at 04:15:52

In terms of omni-directional-ness, and a room that does not allow more than a couple of feet from back or side walls, how do the ERRx and HR-1's compare to open baffles? Andrew's review talked me out of the Zen Master Series.

As mentioned elsewhere, I have the Ohm Walsh omni's on my list as well. In part because of their claim that being close to walls actually improves the sound. Curious what the Decware omni's require in terms of distance from walls without sacrificing performance.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Archie on 11/07/21 at 05:07:32

The HR1s aren't particularly sensitive to wall distance in my experience. If you have woodworking skills at all I suggest you order a set of F15 drivers and build some speakers. It's a very low risk proposition and low cost too. If they don't work out I'm sure you'd find a buyer for the drivers without losing much money. I have my Big baffle F15s on felt pads and they easily slide on my wood floors so I can pull them in and out. I don't notice much difference in sound when they are 1 foot or 3 feet from the back wall. I don't put a lot of stock in some of these reviews -- and really, that was a very positive review, IMO, unless you have an identical environment.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by DancingSea on 11/07/21 at 05:17:05

Aloha Archie,

Yes, it was a very positive review. He basically said it was poor man's LaScala, which is exceptionally high praise. But it went contrary to my room situation. I don't have the space. Andrew seemed to think the Zens needed distance from walls. And their description of the overall open baffle experience led me to believe that perhaps I'm not "ready" for that, as great as it probably is. With high Hawaiian shipping to and fro, have to make educated guesses. But omni's still hold my attention.

My woodworking skills are limited to chopping wood with an axe 😂

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Archie on 11/07/21 at 06:56:19

Axe hewn baffles? That might be an interesting experiment!

I keep pushing the F15s only because of my experience of going from HR1s, which are sitting under covers, behind me as I type, to F15s. I have no experience with F15s in a small-ish space though.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Lin on 11/07/21 at 13:10:09

Archie wrote on 11/07/21 at 05:07:32:

I don't notice much difference in sound when they are 1 foot or 3 feet from the back wall.

Do you have a boatload of treatments on the front wall? :o
Have you ever tried them out even more (5-6 ft)?

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Archie on 11/07/21 at 18:12:38

When you say front wall are you referring to what's behind me as I face the speakers? I don't have any room treatments at all but I have a rather unique room. To me it's untreatable but also very complex and full of furniture, wall hangings, plants, couch and above all volume. Vaulted ceiling is all 45 degree angles with two huge dormers. It's twice as wide as deep and it's 35 ft wide with wings that go much farther.

Unfortunately I can't go beyond 3+ feet off of the back wall due to limits in my speaker cables and a 3 inch step in my floor when I run into my woodstove hearth (my F15s weigh 100+ lbs each). I'm sure many have better sound than I but given my restrictions I'm fairly satisfied. But I'm not the best source for typical speaker evaluation either. All I can really do is compare Monitor Audio RX6, HR1 and Big Baffled F15 speakers since those are all I've tried in my space.

Right now I'm up in my lofted second floor and the sound up hear is great. I may have accidentally built a concert hall and not a house! :)

Here's a picture that gives an idea of the chaos. This time of year I have to move the speakers back from the woodstove and barrels of firewood end up in front. Believe it or not, all of this clutter doesn't seem to hurt the sound much but it can throw off the center image.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Lin on 11/07/21 at 22:22:19

Front wall as in the wall behind the speakers.

OB/dipole reflections off of this wall should be dealt with through treatments or distance. Early reflections confuse our brain and it works harder which often leads to listener fatigue.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Archie on 11/07/21 at 23:09:01

I see. Nope, no treatment. I suppose something might fit there but it's still problematic. As for listening fatigue, I'm not sure what that feels like so I may not be getting it.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by metropolis7 on 11/07/21 at 23:12:00

I am gearing up for building a baffle for my F15s. My room is somewhat unique, too. It's long and narrow, 40 feet long but only about 12 feet wide with ceilings only 7 feet high. What is the best speaker positioning setup for the Lii 15 baffles in this less than ideal room?

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Lin on 11/07/21 at 23:27:37

Archie wrote on 11/07/21 at 23:09:01:

As for listening fatigue, I'm not sure what that feels like so I may not be getting it.

I don't know how you listen, but my comments are based on being in the "sweet spot" listening.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Lin on 11/07/21 at 23:31:33

metropolis7 wrote on 11/07/21 at 23:12:00:

Will the speakers be on the short wall or long wall?
Are there other openings?

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Lin on 11/07/21 at 23:38:28

For a brief summary of early/late reflections and the benefits of late arrival see under "Acoustics: Cracking the Early/Late Arrival Conundrum" in this link: http://jamesromeyn.com/audiokinesis-speaker-design/#philosophy

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by metropolis7 on 11/08/21 at 01:27:44

On the short wall, so I can at least 5 feet away from this wall with no problem. However, if I place them 6 feet apart from one another, that leaves them only 2 or 3 feet away from the side walls.

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Lin on 11/08/21 at 02:50:33

metropolis7 wrote on 11/08/21 at 01:27:44:

On the short wall, so I can at least 5 feet away from this wall with no problem. However, if I place them 6 feet apart from one another, that leaves them only 2 or 3 feet away from the side walls.

Should not be a problem; under the Orion faq section it is stated:
"Q2- How critical is the speaker placement?

A2 - Basically, any dipole speaker needs breathing room around it. Even a conventional box speaker benefits greatly from as much open space around it as possible. When measured from the tweeter of the ORION, the side wall should be at least 2 ft (0.6 m) away, and the wall behind the speaker at least 4 ft (1.2 m). The side wall is not as critical as long as there is a sufficient opening for the acoustic volume flow between front and rear sides of the ORION. This then forms an acoustic pressure null towards the side wall."

5 ft out and @ 10 ft from the speakers gives you 38% (15.2') of 40 ft. [smiley=icqlite20.png]

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by metropolis7 on 11/08/21 at 03:20:21

I apologize, i want to make sure I read that correctly. "10 ft from the speakers" means my listening seat should be ten feet away?
"Sufficient opening for volume flow", does this mean that nothing should be impeding the projection of sound from the front or back of the dipole speaker"?

Title: Re: New Andrew Robinson Review - Another Order Surge
Post by Lin on 11/08/21 at 03:36:36

metropolis7 wrote on 11/08/21 at 03:20:21:

Listening position of 3/8 length of room is a starting point, you may have to adjust to get the soundstage you want since you can't place the speakers 10 ft apart. Try the speakers wide and move away from side wall as needed.

Not sure what you mean in the second question.