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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> I have a idea.
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Message started by Donnie on 10/17/21 at 14:48:00

Title: I have a idea.
Post by Donnie on 10/17/21 at 14:48:00

I have at least the kernel of a idea rattling around in my fat head. But I'm not sure how to pull it off or even if it is feasible.

The question of is 2 watts or 6 watts or whatever watts enough is a continuing theme here in this forum. I mean if you look back it is almost a constant.

My idea is to make videos of our systems playing with all of our different efficiency speakers and perhaps a SPL meter showing how loud it is.

Don't look at me as how to pull this off, I'm just a idea man.
But think how handy this would be when someone asks the question and we would be able to show them proof.

My current setup with 90ish dB speakers will pull around 98 dB in my room with my Torii, and that is pretty friggin loud.

If the idea could be pulled off it would answer a lot of questions, as seeing is believing.

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Steve Deckert on 10/17/21 at 17:11:26

I will post the videos on our Youtube channel. Send me a link to your video when it's done. Use a smartphone that records in stereo so that all the videos are the same. Be sure to remove the cover you added to your phone before making the recordings.

Steve

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Dominick on 10/17/21 at 20:25:10

I have an battery powered lavalier microphone that plugs into my iPhone. The sound is superior to the iPhone mic. I am under construction right now, so if my mic is accessible, I will take a recording and send it over.

Dom

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Tony on 10/18/21 at 00:26:03

Brainstorming a bit with this idea: When I first read that Donnie's current setup could pull 98 dB's, my reaction was "ouch, that's loud!" I based that response on my regular use of a phone app called Sound Meter. When listening in my room, confirmed by Sound Meter, I generally cruise at a loudness level around 75 dB. I consider that pretty loud, but an acceptable level considering neighbors. Later in the evening, I will decrease volume or switch to headphones.

In the app, a loudness scale defines the dB numbers: 20dB = whisper, 40 dB = quiet library, 60 dB = conversation, 80 dB = loud music, 100 dB = motorcycle, and 120 dB = threshold of pain. That scale provided me with a reference for the interpretation of the numbers. That is why when Donnie mentioned that his setup could pull 98 dB, it was a "wow" to me.

My point is that such a table might add to the video. If different levels of amp loudness were reflected in a meter insert, having a table insert next to the meter would provide a basis for interpretation.

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by will on 10/18/21 at 02:10:21

I am thinking that unless we know that our speaker ratings are totally accurate, the listening seat dB output before distortion is only a partial indicator of what the amp can do? So I am wondering, is there a way to run a test to figure out the efficiency of our speakers somehow using the same phone dB meter, as well as listening seat dB tests?

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Brian on 10/18/21 at 02:55:36

I am using this online loudness meter https://youlean.co/online-loudness-meter/
I do not have any equipment to verify it's accuracy. It says my noise floor is 53db, which would be the computer's cooling fan and a ticking clock. It also says my average loudness is as quiet as 75db on songs I like to play quietly, but with max peaks of 88dB on those same songs. Listening to Alice Cooper - Billion Dollar Babies, the avg was 90 and the peaks were usually 102, with one of them being 108 when I turned it up at one point.
I do not know if this can be right. I once read that an angry argument with two people shouting into each other's faces from a distance of three or four feet is perceived by them as 85dB. This music was not nearly as loud as someone shouting in my face.
So I don't know what to believe.

Brian

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Tony on 10/19/21 at 04:02:01

Brian that's so cool! I just downloaded and used the meter you shared and it is way better with the scale built right in. I hereby cast my vote for this one [smiley=icqlite20.png]

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Brian on 10/19/21 at 06:37:26

Hi, Tony.
I am thrilled that it pleased somebody. I only wish I knew if it is accurate. Those numbers seem so high.

Brian

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Tony on 10/19/21 at 15:28:32

I hear you on that question Brian.

For those experimenting with these 2 sound meter apps, the link to the Android app that I have been using for the past couple of months is:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.splendapps.decibel&hl=en_US&gl=US

All I can add is that it seems consistent over time. When listening to music in my room, I will adjust the loudness level to a subjective "there, that's good" level. Using the app in this post, I am around the same level of 75 - 80 dB consistently. Over 80 is too loud for me.

Last night, experimenting with this one and Brian's (link above) the results were similar - within 2 or 3 dB of each other for a mean over 30 seconds or so. Still, are these readings accurate or off by a certain amount?

My first attempt at finding something more on calibration came up lean, a few users commented on comparing one's sound meter to a known standard and then adding/subtracting to the meter's level which seems inadequate.

Anyone know of a sound meter, probably not an app, that is a "known industrial standard?"

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Coyote on 10/23/21 at 16:11:54

Not sure about the accuracy of the meter apps but as a variation on the theme I used mine to "show" some friends what 90db "is" .

So when I said the UFO2 easily reaches 90+ db with 96db sensitive speakers I got little reaction.

This was in our (Toyota 4runner) so I took the app and I asked one to start turning the stereo up the two passengers were not wanting to go higher than around 80db, that made my point.
;-)

Cheers,

a.

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by EdwardT on 10/23/21 at 16:24:08

Tony,
I've seen this meter used at many venues in order to enforce SPL limits. I can't say it’s an industry standard but I carried one for that purpose at work (concert touring) and the results were always accepted as accurate.

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Donnie on 10/23/21 at 16:30:58

I need to figure out the logistics of how to do this.

There will need to be 2 phones involved. One with the meter and one filming.
If I use my wife's phone there will be hell to pay!

I guess my biggest question is how and where to host a video from.
I'm not sure if Imgur hosts video at all.
If YouTube is used there sometimes can be copyright issues on the music that you use that shuts you down.

Are videos too large to Email? Hmm maybe this cloud storage stuff is the answer. I just never trusted my stuff in someone else's hands.

My simple idea is getting too complicated for me to think about.

I'll just go and paint speaker stands while someone else figures out the details.

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Steve Deckert on 10/24/21 at 22:03:51

Perhaps I should buy an accurate meter for this task, and we can send it around -- each participant can send it on to the next one when he is done.

When I take this in my room with the shop fans turned off, etc, I get a noise floor between 36-39dB. Presently it is raining hard outside.

Consider it an option if people can't find two phones.

-Steve

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by effluviography on 10/25/21 at 02:36:22

FYI - there was a study of which sound volume measurement apps are most reliable. If you interested, here is a link to the article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32108336/

The winner was the "NIOSH Sound Level Meter" - it's free and has no ads.

Scott

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Eboogie101 on 10/25/21 at 03:20:07

Count me in! I have a few different speaker and amps and it would be fun!

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by DPC on 11/21/21 at 11:31:49

So, what happened here?

Donnie came up with a good idea and no one participates.

????

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Lon on 11/21/21 at 13:53:10

Maybe there's just not a lot of interest. Maybe we're happily listening.

Happy Sunday all!

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/22/21 at 02:21:58

For things like this to work, it takes a project manager. I'll leave that to Donnie since it was his idea, or to whoever he might want to pass the torch to. Myself I have too many amps to build to take on any more projects. If there is anything I can do to help it along, like compile and post the videos on our Youtube channel, I'd be happy to.

Steve

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by ColinJ on 11/22/21 at 22:08:28

I would be happy to take on the role of coordinating this. I do technical project management day-to-day.

I don't actually own a Decware amp myself. Doubts over the question of "will it be loud enough?" have kept me from pulling the trigger on a Decware amp for years.

I think the 2-phone approach using the same software, configured the same way, would be the most practical way to get this done. Using the NIOSH application sounds like a great idea. But I would be happy to keep track of a microphone mailed around as well if that's the better approach.

For anyone interested, I'll write-up a proposed methodology leveraging ideas in this thread and post it somewhere (e.g. Google Docs) for review. The goal would be to create a step-by-step process that's easy to follow for consistent results.

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by GroovySauce on 11/24/21 at 17:17:39

I did a quick test.

I have a UMIK-1 calibrated mic using REW.

Torii MKIV 25w with PAP quintet 96db I was getting 100+ SPL. I didn't want to push it anymore as that is LOUD! I could feel the room overloading around 85-90db SPL. Even with the room being overloaded it was clear, full and rich.

My iPhone does a lousy job recording audio. The audio sounded thin an uninspired. It also was clipping.

I then hooked up my Yeti Snowball to my iphone via an adapter. Again I was getting clipping. At normal levels it does sound much better than the phones mic.

I wouldn't want to post any of my videos at loud levels as it sounds very poor. At normal listening levels sounds good, it is also mono.

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by ColinJ on 11/27/21 at 04:32:36

I did a similar test, recording a video just using my phone. The sound quality on playback was terrible - I wouldn't want to post this video either. Using a phone, I think it would be a challenge to produce a video at loud levels that doesn't sound like a broken 80's-era boombox.

This is still a great idea, though, but I was thinking perhaps there might be an easier way to help answer the "is 2 watts or 6 watts or whatever watts enough?" question without having to solve both the technical problems of video production and capturing consistent sound level measurements. I think what people really want to know is "are there people out there, with a speaker like mine, happily living with a low watt amplifier?"

So maybe a simple thread topic on this forum inviting owners to post relevant information about their system and comment on their experience would do the job.

For example, posts could follow a simple format like this:

* Amplifier Model:
* Speaker Model:
* Mfg. Sensitivity Rating:
* Room Dimensions:

...and then any comments.

Maybe title the topic, "Ok, But Does It Play Loud Enough?"

Title: Re: I have a idea.
Post by SteveB on 12/21/21 at 10:50:52

For those if you looking for a meter.

https://www.parts-express.com/Triplett-TSC-MC1-SoniChek-MC-Mini-Sound-Lever-Meter-391-078

$45 at Parts Express.