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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Is anyone using their ZP3 with no line stage?
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Message started by JimJ on 09/08/21 at 18:22:23

Title: Is anyone using their ZP3 with no line stage?
Post by JimJ on 09/08/21 at 18:22:23

I'm considering a ZP3 phono stage, but due to space constraints it's tough to fit both a phono stage and a tubed line stage. The digital side of my system is a Benchmark DAC2D, so that can directly drive my power amps (Svet 811s with 6EA7 inputs) but most tubed phono stages can't, at least from what I've been reading.

Has anyone tried their ZP3 with something like a DACT attenuator, and what did you think of it? My cable run is maybe 6 feet, low-capacitance Blue Jeans interconnects.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Is anyone using their ZP3 with no line stage?
Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 10/15/21 at 16:38:05

Just saw this.
I don't use an active preamp between my ZP3 and SE84B.
I use a passive preamp based upon the Slagle 47 step silver autoformer. Similar concept, but an autoformer based attenuator ( IMHO ) far outperforms a resistive ( such as the DACT ) based solution.

But don't hesitate to use a Dact or other stepped attenuator. The ZP3 has plenty of guts to drive the SE84B.

I've got plenty of volume into both loudspeakers ( HDT ) or headphones.

Very, very high quality reproduction.

Cheers, Crazy Bill

Title: Re: Is anyone using their ZP3 with no line stage?
Post by Archie on 10/15/21 at 16:54:16

Quote:

The ZP3 has plenty of guts to drive the SE84B.

I want to add a bit of qualifier to this statement. The output of the ZP3 will depend on the cartridge output. I think with my old MM cart with an output of 4 mV my calculation showed that I was getting around 0.5 volts out of my ZP3. Without further amplification of the signal, that's only 1/3 of the 1.5 volts for full power spec of the SE84. That's leaving a lot of capacity on the table.

Here is a link to the formula I used.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/taking-the-guesswork-out-of-phonostage-gain-1

Title: Re: Is anyone using their ZP3 with no line stage?
Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 10/15/21 at 17:24:50

Hello Archie,
Just calcs, or did you actually measure anything with a test record ? Very curious

With my HDTs or any of my cans, I can not get close to maximum volume. My ears give out.

Never had an active preamp with gain in my system. Used a ZSLA-1 signature prior to going passive. I have always preferred the increased transparency of the passive approach.

Cartridge is either an Audio Technica AT150MLX or a Shure V15lll with a Jico SAS stylus. Also use a Soundsmith modded Denon DL103r using Beyerdynamic mic step-up transformers. Always plenty of volume.

But, as you are aware, everything is system dependent, and YMMV.

Only way to know for sure is to try it. Buy a cheap 100K pot and make your passive out of it. If you've got sufficient volume and dynamics you can always substitute a better pot and connectors.

Just my ears and two cents.

Title: Re: Is anyone using their ZP3 with no line stage?
Post by Archie on 10/15/21 at 18:00:28

These are just my calculations. I just posted a question about ZMC gain on another thread. I've found a lot of confusion regarding ZP3 and ZMC gain over the years -- mine included. My comment wasn't meant to judge "volume" just whether or not the full potential of the amp was available. On my system, there was a clear difference between my TT with a MM cart going through my ZP3 and my CD player. The ZP3 put out around 1/2 volt (by calculation) whereas the CD player put out 2 volts (by spec). The ZMA needs 2 volts to reach full power. Depending on the actual performance of the ZMC1, with my MC cart I'm closer to 1 volt out of the ZP3 so I don't notice as much difference between that and my CD player.

Title: Re: Is anyone using their ZP3 with no line stage?
Post by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer on 10/15/21 at 18:34:07

Don't do digital anymore, so my CD player ( Marantz DR17 ) has been in the basement for 10 yrs. Gonna have to get it out and compare levels with the ZP3. I'll let you know what I hear.