Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1628462331 Message started by Steve Deckert on 08/08/21 at 23:38:51

Title: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Steve Deckert on 08/08/21 at 23:38:51 What to expect from a Zen amp by someone who as never heard one... but don't worry, he's an engineer and some engineers don't have to listen to see if something sounds good or not, because they already know. Yes, I found the following comment on our Youtube channel: Quote: mosfet500 You really can't here an exceptional amp or speakers on YT, too many factors. What we do know from electronics is that, while the amp might play loud with efficient speakers, it does not have the dynamic range of amps capable of a couple of hundred watts. That's just math. The next thing is that this amp is limited to very high efficiency speakers. There are some exceptional speakers with SPLs in the mid 80's that this amp will not drive. So it is limited to specific types of music and speakers. Engineers do this all the time, they limit parameters to maximize cost saving. You don't build a two ton truck and expect it to be a good commuter car. I looked at the schematic of this amp. DC is DC regardless whether it's a rectifier tube or a silicon diode. Once it's rectified and filtered it is DC and there is no tube characteristic. A tube can turn on the plate voltage slowly but a semiconductor circuit can also turn on the filament slowly extending tube life. Why are people thinking they get something special out of tube rectifiers is beyond me. This you would have to prove in a DBT and no one I know has done it yet. The other thing I see is that you use two resistors in the cathode circuit, 2.7k and 1.5k. That equals .964 ohms, why aren't you simply using a 1 ohm resistor? I'm looking at your output transformers, they don't look special to me, what I see is triode single ended stage at two watts. While I think the EL84 is a very good tube, it is not the only one and not the only triode. So we have this amp, and I'm not doubting you, it might sound very good with certain music and speakers, but we can get class D amps well under $1k that have exceptional linearity and dynamic range. If you drive them with a tube buffer or preamp (I am an 6922 stage) then you can get a very smooth sweet sound. I'm not the only one doing this, by the way. A class D amp doesn't limit the speaker or music selection either. What I ask people to do is to put their biases aside and audition both. That's what I did. Go listen to Holst's Mars on this and class D and honestly ask yourselves which one sounds best. By the way just like digital chips have improved so has class D, now we use GaN's that are hard to beat. I didn't post this to start trouble, but rather as a reminder of why so much audio gear sounds so similar. Steve

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Donnie on 08/08/21 at 23:49:33 I can help him out with a double blind test. It might hurt when I gouge his eyes out, but it is all in the name of science! Yep everything sounds better double blind, but a seeing eye dog takes a lot of Alpo to prove that a class D amp sounds exactly the same as a tube amp does.

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by CAJames on 08/09/21 at 00:27:34 Stopped reading at "can't here"...

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by DPC on 08/09/21 at 10:01:22 I just might be the worst speller on the forum but I can tell the difference between here and hear.

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Geno on 08/09/21 at 15:29:43 Yep. The "here" tickled me too. This fellow is the type that would also go on for days about how cables could not possibly make a difference. I'm actually glad that there are plenty of people like this, because it means that they will not be competition for buying good NOS tubes [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by HockessinKid on 08/09/21 at 15:33:01 "But wear kan use goes to here da zen" axs me? HK

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Dominick on 08/09/21 at 15:45:52 Quote:  So it is limited to specific types of music and speakers. Engineers do this all the time, they limit parameters to maximize cost saving. You don't build a two ton truck and expect it to be a good commuter car. The pure idiocy of these comments are amusing.  I thought engineers were bright people.  Obviously he has a few tubes loose!!   A two ton truck is used to transport and deliver those commuter cars from the factory to you dealer.  The Decware line of amps deliver a sound that a solid state just can’t match… bar none!! Dom

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by EdwardT on 08/09/21 at 17:54:06 A great engineer once told me, “quit looking at the knobs and use your ears.” My ears told me the class D amps I had were lacking and they were right. My Decware gear is just better sounding to me and that's all that matters.

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by maddog07 on 08/09/21 at 17:56:01 there are a lot of "objectivist" who obviously don't trust their own ears.  I wonder if they've ever considered, that there kind has not yet invented tools and methods to "measure" everything the way the human auditory system processes sound?

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by CAJames on 08/09/21 at 23:19:20 My thing, and I’m a physicist by training and trade, is no one ever bought a Stradivarius or a Rembrandt or a Chateau Margaux based on measurements and I’m not buying stereo gear based on them either.

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Palomino on 08/26/21 at 22:10:49 I think they have come a ways with Class D.  At the last Axpona (2019?), they had a blind listening of a traditional SS amp, Class D and a tube amp. The class D was the "closest" to the tube amp (for me and most of the people in the room).   But about 6 years ago, I got tired of trying for close to tube sound and bought my first Decware amp.  Haven't looked back.

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by DPC on 08/27/21 at 01:10:54 I am sure there are many music lovers out there that are very happy with SS amps.  I have herd some fine sounding systems that are all SS. Over the years I have had some very highly rated amps, SS, push-pull tube and low power SET.  Presently there are on standby, SS amps rated at 3,000 Wats all the way to my 2 wat SET84. Bottom line, the two Decware amps are the only ones in use.

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Coyote on 08/29/21 at 18:08:49 Well he can read the colour bands on a resistor, that's a start. :-) alain He simply hasn't seen the light: Short version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ATBbrfmzc0 Long version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbq0OuJtErs

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Geno on 08/29/21 at 18:47:09 It’s gotta be the long version!!! I have seen the light  :) :) :)

Title: Re: What to expect from a Zen amp by someone... Post by Coyote on 08/29/21 at 19:23:53 Geno, I can tell you have seen the light, it is gently glowing on your profile picture... :-) a.

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