Post by Geno on 03/17/21 at 00:08:25
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> Room Treatment >> carpet https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1615736517 Message started by piezoman on 03/14/21 at 16:41:56 |
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Title: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/14/21 at 16:41:56 I've learned that most carpet is acoustically reflective in nature, due to the closed backing. Even if you use great padding, it will still be reflective and really lousy for room acoustics, thus sucks beyond belief. Any recommendations /sources on the "right" carpet? Padding? |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by GroovySauce on 03/14/21 at 17:24:58 I've been known to lay down some 2x4 acoustic panels on the floor to help with floor reflections. It's a lousy solution as need to move panels around a lot. It is really efficacious. Maybe a high pile shag rug? EDIT: To clarify I put them in the first reflection point between the speakers and listening position. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by Steve Deckert on 03/16/21 at 18:41:26 The trick to carpet it to make it diaphragmatic using the backing to create the layer. This is done by using a commercial grade rubberized pad with air pockets under a 1/2 thick pile carpet. In my opinion there is no better form of room treatment for the dollar. Steve |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by Geno on 03/16/21 at 22:58:01 Piezo, I know that Steve has experimented with heavy duty floor mats. The kind with short carpet on top of hard rubber. You could experiment with that at the first reflection point on the floor out in front of each speaker. It just might make a big difference. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by Geno on 03/17/21 at 00:08:25 Like this:
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/17/21 at 00:37:21 Thanks Geno for your input! Steve, how large should the rubberized padding under the carpet be.....something like Geno's pic, or larger, or the whole floor of the room? Any ideas as to a good source to buy this? Thanks, Brad |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by Archie on 03/17/21 at 06:30:26 Steve is talking about the rubber pad that normally goes under the carpet, wall-to-wall but instead of the padding that's made up of fused together small pieces, the padding is a monolithic material that looks like an in-side-out waffle. I've always seen it in green. I think, anyway. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by JBzen on 03/17/21 at 10:50:07 What Archie said. It comes in blue too. https://www.caldwellcarpet.com/hotel-carpet-pad.htm John |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/17/21 at 16:30:02 Thank you gentlemen! |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/17/21 at 16:31:40 this guy thinks the floor means absolutely nothing. see beginning @ 35:10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d9WmjTJniI |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by Archie on 03/17/21 at 16:40:02 That video is longer than I can invest right now so I didn't watch any of it. But seriously, how could he say floors don't matter? What's the practical difference between a floor, wall or ceiling when it comes to sound waves? Edit: Thanks for the time stamp. I guess the only way it makes sense to me is figuring that our hearing evolved on the wide open plains of Africa where there are no walls and there is no ceiling -- just a floor (ground). Now the typical ground is a lot more damped than a concrete slab but compared to unlimited air, not so much diff between dirt/grass and concrete. I still find his statement strangely definitive. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/17/21 at 16:42:25 Quote:
indeed, extremely weird. he's telling us simply forget about our floors, they don't matter at all in the interest of improving the sound in one's room in home audio....so just leave your cement or wood floor bare for all he cares, thinking about it is a waste of time according to him. sayyyyyy what? |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by Archie on 03/18/21 at 06:57:16 I think Steve has a different opinion. I'd go with that. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/18/21 at 15:36:54 no question about it, arch. seems to me that guy is off his rocker on the issue of floors. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by GroovySauce on 03/18/21 at 15:50:45 I watched a few minutes when he is talking about floors. My guess is that he is talking specifically about a mixing environment, where you have a console and desk between you and the speakers. That would make sense to me. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by JBzen on 03/19/21 at 01:04:30 I agree with GroovySauce. His discussion is based on the basics of a recording room studio and simple implication of such. A good insightful lesson. John |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/19/21 at 03:57:43 You guys are right. I flew flatfaced on this one. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by JOMAN on 03/20/21 at 22:33:43 Not all carpet is a poor choice. The first question is; how much money do you want to spend? An open back machine woven or hand knotted wool carpet on top of wool felt pad or high quality rubber pad will work very well. Sisal and cork is also a good choice. If the carpet has a backing as all broadloom does, then a wool/jute backed carpet, preferably a cut pile, will also work. The typical mainstream carpet, even if it's cut pile, with the synthetic backing and lousy latex that keeps it all together is not the best choice unless you can make it diaphragmatic as Steve pointed out. I have a 9x12 hand knotted Super Agra, (open back, hand knotted) under which is a high density felt cushion. Under that is a high grade (no fillers) cork floating floor. This works very well indeed, but it's not cheap. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/22/21 at 02:50:53 Thanks John, great to see you back on the forum. I will take Steve's advice. Right now Im in the midst of making an array of room treatments and waiting on delivery of diffuser panels to which I will further tweak. I finally decided to no longer put up with leaving far too much on the table in an entirely untreated room, so its time to step up the game and get closer to hearing what the system is actually capable of delivering. I will further tweak with more room treatments after getting some recordings done and the frequencies analyzed. Also in the midst of painting the room and getting rid of some physical encumbrances to make it much more of a purposed listening room. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by JOMAN on 03/22/21 at 17:15:41 Thanks, kept following the various posts but I didn't really have anything new till I got my ZRock2 repaired and the Mundorf bypass cap changed and now the CSP3 with the A-mods and all the caps changed to Miflex. I'll be posting more about that but I can tell you this CSP3 is a real game changer! I'm with you on the room treatment. In fact that's next for me as well. However, whatever I do will have to pass inspection by the Wife! It's going to hurt. Next and last will be a speaker experiment... OB with Lii 15 and Lii Fast 8. Not that what I have isn't good. I'm going to see if I can keep the speed and add a measure of HIT. I'm coinciding the speaker experiment with the delivery of her new car. I hope that I will be able to slide the speaker experiment past her at that time and, yes that REALLY HURT! So more to come... |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 03/26/21 at 20:13:07 Sounds great, John! Looking forward to hearing more about your fabulous newly modded CSP3. The WAF problem is usually a significant one for many of us. Most women don;t even care to discern the difference between a 70's transistor radio and a modern high end 2 channel system, they think its a waste of time and money. And they definitely dislike any physical intrusion of our beloved hobby in their "space". I followed Steve's advice.....and just purchased today a high quality 80 oz. 3/4" pile carpet, and 90 oz. rubberized waffle padding. Warning: this padding was fairly difficult to find. After a TON of calls, I finally found a local family-owned carpet store who located a nearby distributor that sells this stuff commercially. Almost none of the retail outfits sell this kind of padding anymore, and haven't for a long time. You can find a couple wholesalers online, but the cost of shipping is unbelievable, 3-4 times the cost of the padding! I was lucky to find a local guy who was willing to go the extra yard and piggyback on a huge contract that the distributor had with a commercial entity, and the price was excellent. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 04/04/21 at 18:21:29 the carpeting correct padding iaw steve's recommendation was professionally installed yesterday. with no treatments up on the walls yet, when i clap there now no audible echo in the room. i had crappy old worn-out berber carpeting in the room with no padding before, this is a very significant improvement! i generally hate wall to wall carpeting, have none of it upstairs [just wooden floors with slammer area rugs], but in my audio room i've made it a priority and exception. |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by Archie on 04/04/21 at 18:47:25 As you may have noticed if you handled the pad, it's way denser than the typical pad. Maybe you ought to cover your walls and ceiling with it. ;D |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by piezoman on 04/04/21 at 21:58:54 Hey Arch, haha, yes its VERY dense and MUCH heavier than the standard padding they use these days. if i padded the whole room, do i finally qualify for a custom straight-jacket and a life inventory of thorazine to go with? :D ;D |
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Title: Re: carpet Post by DirtDawg on 03/12/22 at 19:18:07 Have you done any definitive tests regarding Thorazine rolling, yet? ;D But a serious question; I used my old school method learned in the '70s when I worked as a schlepper with a guy installing equipment in recording studios. I was a smart teenager then who was beginning to learn just how much I didn't know, so I payed attention. He swore by unbacked, woven material rugs or tiled carpet squares, bound but not backed, over thick jute padding for floor absorption. And, he actually did run it up walls and doors to about 3' or 4' high most of the time. Before I even unpacked my first tube, I dropped coin on jute underpad and bought a cool looking woven rug. I was faced with a very nice tile floor over poured concrete foundation. I knew that would not work for a listening room. Did I waste that $ with the jute pad? I'm keeping the rug. It's just too cool. Should I get some of that inside out waffle padding instead? I love Steve's idea of how the backing becomes a diaphragm, which I presume would absorb even lower frequencies than just a soft pad could. Means I might need to buy a remnant with a backing, but I'm still using my rug. [smiley=tunes26.gif] I know every room is unique, but mine is clearly hard and reflective to start. What do you guys think? |
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