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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1614529364 Message started by Nrobhenry on 02/28/21 at 16:22:44 |
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Title: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Nrobhenry on 02/28/21 at 16:22:44 My current setup is: Clearaudio Concept w MC Cart Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2 Yamaha AS801 Integrated Totem Dreamcatchers (+Martin Logan sub) I’ll occasionally do FLAC or Tidal HiFi from my Mac to the Yamaha using the onboard DAC. I also frequently use headphones (Sennheiser HD650s and Grado SR 325e) out of the Yamaha for night listening. I’ve just acquired a pair of Heresy III’s. I haven’t yet decided whether I will continue with the sub. So far I’m pretty happy without it. I’m ready for a new amp, but am now feeling a bit overwhelmed by my Decware choices. I initially wanted the UFO, but then realized I’d be without a headphone option. That leads me to the Rachael and gives me the option to have an optional sub out and two inputs, but at twice the price and a little more power. Another option would be the UFO now and CSP3 later to add the headphone out and sub options which would be a bit more costly but offer a little more optionality. I’m also wondering how it would go if I flipped the order and I ran the CSP3 through the Yamaha to start, although I’m not wild about the idea of two gain stages. Would love to hear suggestions or recommendations. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by canonken on 02/28/21 at 17:47:38 Hmmm tough call. The headphone element adds a wrinkle (because you said frequent). SE34I.5 looks like it could do everything, as you said. $1900 gets you 2 RCA inputs, headphone jack, variable output for subwoofer. MORE than enough power for the Klipsch. You could use your existing phono pre on there short or long-term. Said another way, you might find yourself unhappy if you get the UFO and try to 'make it work'. Don't spend less, compromise, then not really be satisfied. Also, the build time is VERY long (I will not speak for Decware, but looks like 6+ months out if you order today). You pay a small deposit now and pay the rest when it is ready for you. I can't speak to financial situation (and it is none of my business) but can you use that time to overcome any price concerns? I think you can also change your order with no penalty (basically you are getting your place in line). |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by kulafu on 02/28/21 at 18:24:09 My Heresy IIIs used to be on solid state integrated amp (CXA81) and ventured into tube amps (Elekit 8200) and got hooked. I have other Klipsch speakers and have purchased DECWARE amps for them which will take about six months to build and ship. Members here in this forum and Steve have been very helpful in finalizing my choices. If you can wait for the CSP to be able to use your headphones, I think you will enjoy tube amps! In the meanwhile can you use your yamaha to listen with your headphones? |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Nrobhenry on 02/28/21 at 18:38:59 Thanks to you both for your replies. The wait time is a good point to consider. I guess the better way to frame my decision is whether the CSP+UFO or the SE34I.5 is the better pairing. Sounds like either way would work well. |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by will on 02/28/21 at 18:47:50 I think either would work well, but that is not the whole story to me. First, relative to your questions.... I have not used a sub for a really long time. But as I recall, for the best sound, I am pretty sure most who talk about it on this forum use speaker level out even when they have the option for line level out... Hopefully someone in the know will comment on this. Also, I am a huge fan of two gain stages personally. In fact I typically use what are in effect three gains....a ZBIT (adjustable balanced out from DAC, wide open is the DAC voltage out, so gain adjustment is attenuation, but quite useful for balancing gains), a CSP3, and a Torii. I have never used my Zstage or CSP3 for a volume control, instead using them as gain balancing adjustments for "gain riding." In my case, the Torii IV sounds more-or-less neutral at different volumes, so to me it is the best "volume control." Whereas, the pre stages I use, especially the CSP3, there is a quite meaningful amount of tonal/density variation depending on the voltage out of the CSP3, and how that effects the amp sound. This can be a great tool if baseline gains are set between them to be about neutral, and then adjust the CSP3 to tune/optimize the signal intensity as a means of improving on the many different recording styles we hear. Keeping an optimal listening volume while riding the gains between the CSP3 and Torii, more CSP3/less Torii, gives a more intense signal...more density, weight, dynamics, more bass and more lucidity....better for leaner recordings. And less CSP3/more amp gain, the signal goes lighter, leaner, less intensity of weight, bass, dynamics, lucidity.....better for thicker recordings. I have mine tuned so that I can go too lean and too intense, giving a wide range in the middle for gain tuning on the fly, often making a few little adjustments for most albums at this point. The other thing about too many or not enough gains seems to depend a lot on the setup and the transparency of the gain stages, and the system/room in general. My CSP3 is highly modified, but before I started working on it, with open/revealing tube sets, I found it had a sound for sure, but one I liked, one that improved my sense of "realness" and listening immersion.....especially loving its lucidity within its relative transparency as a gain balancing tool.... Just a few more thoughts, but guessing out loud....I personally would probably choose a CSP3 and SE84 over a Rachel if my speakers were efficient enough. |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by canonken on 02/28/21 at 18:49:44 Happy to help (or try!) I think the next question someone needs to help you with is the sound difference between the ZEN and SE34I.5 - same number of tubes, but obviously different power tubes. But...if you want the option for a RCA sub output...not an option on the ZEN. |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Archie on 02/28/21 at 19:15:45 YES! Quote:
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by piezoman on 02/28/21 at 20:22:03 damned straight, tits up! [smiley=icqlite20.png] |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Nrobhenry on 02/28/21 at 20:42:58 Awesome to get so much solid advice so quickly. I’m thinking CSP and UFO is the way to go. Could always add in a second UFO down the road. I also have a Yamaha CA-810 with true pre outs, so at some point I could use that with the CSP if wanted as well. Would love if anyone could elaborate on the difference in sound for the two, but I think I’m getting close to making my decision. |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by canonken on 02/28/21 at 20:47:35 Next question...UFO or UFO2? You know you will want the two units to match ;) |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Nrobhenry on 03/01/21 at 01:06:54 Decided to pull the trigger on the CSP3 and UFO combo. Thanks all for the input. |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by canonken on 03/01/21 at 02:51:58 Awesome! Glad you got your place in line. I believe it is fairly easy to change your order if needed (before it goes into production...you have time!) |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Nrobhenry on 03/01/21 at 02:53:02 Also... ended up going with the UFO2. Couldn't resist. |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by canonken on 03/01/21 at 04:28:59 Nice! The meters and wood case (and different design/layout) make it look really cool (and they will match!). I love the UFO exists for $995, but when I ordered my UFO2, there was zero question the extra dollars were worth it. |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by will on 03/01/21 at 05:32:30 Not to complicate matters, and not sure how the anniversary modifications costs now end up with the change to Mundorf Supreme caps, but worth checking out I think! |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Dominick on 03/01/21 at 08:29:56 Like another forum member stated.....the frequent use of headphones puts a wrinkle in the situation. The difference in power between the Zen and the Rachel is not a big difference, but they do have different sonic signatures. Another difference is that the Zen only needs 2 volts to come to full power, whereas the Rachel needs 2.5 volts...so with a common 2 volt source the Rachel would not come to full power without an added gain stage. One option is to buy the Zen amp and spend another $359 for the Zen Switch box. If you do this you are now in the same price point of a stock Rachel but with only 1 set of inputs and no outputs. If you configure the Rachel and add 4 pairs of inputs and an optional output, you now tack on another $350 to the base price tag. The ZSB has 4 input selectors with dual outputs. You could theoretically send one signal to the preamp/amp and the other to feed a your sub. I don’t believe there would be a timing issue..but not certain. You would just need a Y interconnect cable to convert the signal from dual to mono. I know it’s best to utilize the speaker level inputs on the sub vs. the interconnects, but this could solve your problem. I have the ZSB and love it’s versatility. Just a thought and hope this helps. Dom |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Steve Deckert on 03/01/21 at 16:19:23 FWIW, the SE84UFO makes a rather great headphone amp with an external headphone jack outfitted with pigtails to connect to the amplifiers speaker binding posts. We can make a headphone jack like that for around $100 Steve |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by piezoman on 03/01/21 at 16:47:49 Steve, that would be worth alot to many out there, I'm sure. If I have not gone for the Taboo, I would have done exactly what you said. If this isn't posted for your SE8UFO offerings, you might want to make sure you do/did. Not knowing its an option could be a deal-breaker for some, maybe more than some.... |
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Title: Re: Advice on amp(s) to order for Heresy iii’s Post by Nrobhenry on 03/03/21 at 15:38:23 Hi Steve, That sounds like a very intriguing option. To switch between speakers and headphones would this involve detaching the speakers and connecting the headphone pigtails? Thanks! |
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