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AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Cryogenic tube treatment
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Message started by CDN on 01/14/21 at 23:45:54

Title: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by CDN on 01/14/21 at 23:45:54

I am a newbie to Decware and just received the Rachael amp. Wow, I am so pleased with the sound it delivers, it is hard to imagine what 6 watts is capable of delivering. This is also my first tube amp, have always stayed away because of perceived tube maintenance issues. All that said, when it comes to replacing tubes, or rolling tubes, what are the opinions about cryogenically treating tubes? I notice that Upscale Audio offers tubes cryo treated for an upcharge. Is that ever worth it? Does it change the sound or the life of the tube? Perhaps this topic has been covered before, but searching the forum did not turn up any posts on cryo treating.

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by GroovySauce on 01/15/21 at 16:47:37

I bought and used some cryo treated tubes. I really don't know if it made any difference or not. Until I do a test, cryo'd vs non-cryo'd, I'm going to stick to non-cryo'd.

I did have a cryo'd GL 6922 get really noisy, the tube started screeching after a month of use, I could hear it across the room. It was in the inverter socket on the ZMA.  Fluke ? maybe, I don't want to make a sweeping generalization based on one experience.  

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by Doug on 01/15/21 at 21:15:22

I’ve used cryo’d tubes and wires since it became the thing to do, but like groovy, I’ve never done a direct comparison.  Is it an audio scam?  I don’t think so, and as long as the up charge is not a wallet killer, I’ll stick with cryo’d.

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by canonken on 01/16/21 at 18:23:29

It is hard to not check the box at Upscale Audio because they don't seem to charge much for it (relatively speaking) - and I feel if you didn't do it, you might be second guessing yourself.

It certainly screams 'bogus' but I don't know.

Are there serious commercial/industrial applications for cryo treatment on electronic parts?

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by Archie on 01/16/21 at 18:27:03

I'm no expert but the short answer is Yes.  It changes the metallurgy and I think it helps suss out faults.

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by Donnie on 01/16/21 at 20:59:03

Well I'll chime in about cryo.

Spoiler alert.

It is a big scam and I will elaborate.

As it is probably known, my profession is Manufacturing Engineering for a huge company that makes great big yellow things that more or less rape mother earth.
Before that I apprenticed as a Toolmaker and did that for almost 20 years before apprenticing again as a Pattern Maker and doing that for another 6 years. So I know metals and metal processing.

Yes Cryo is another way to alter the orientation of crystals in metals, not unlike heat treating.

The leading company in this business is 300 Below, that by coincidence, is based in my home town.

So because of the "local" connection I was able to start testing this "miracle" process over 30 years ago.

So after over 2 years of research, what we discovered was that items that were exposed to heat as part of their use after being sent through the cryo process were actually worse than before.

So you are saying to yourself "what does this have to do with my tubes"?

Well look at your tubes right now, see that glowing inside, that is from heat, undoing all of that cryo right in front of your nose.

It isn't unlike how we heat treat tool steels. We heat them up to a certain temp, hold it there for a time to excite the atoms, and then cool it off rapidly.
At that point the metal is hard as all get out, maybe/probably too hard, so  we then draw back the material to where we need it to be by heating it back up to a lower temp and slowly bringing it back to room temp.

So every time you turn on your amp and the tubes warm up, then shut it down and the tubes cool back down you are going through a drawing back cycle, undoing your cryo.

Now in applications that don't add heat, a cryo treatment might help. I've heard of razor blades lasting longer, plastics being better, things like that.

So ends my sermon about why I think that cryo tubes are just an unnecessary waste of money.

But in saying that, there are some cryo tubes in my amp right now.
They were the only ones available to me at the time that I needed new tubes so I bought them.
Did they sound better? I don't know because my old tubes were like a raging lightning storm at the time and I'm thinking that anything would sound better than that.

So call me a Mother Earth raping hypocrite.

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by Doug on 01/16/21 at 21:06:40

So, Donnie, might my cryo’d speaker wires be a bit better performers than the un-cryo’d version?

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by Donnie on 01/16/21 at 21:21:47


Doug wrote on 01/16/21 at 21:06:40:
So, Donnie, might my cryo’d speaker wires be a bit better performers than the un-cryo’d version?


Doug,
Quite possibly they are better.

Unless you rout them through your heater or oven or you are experiencing house fires on a regular basis. Then all bets are off.

What I am saying is that heat cycles eliminate any of the processes that cryo puts into the metal.

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by CDN on 01/28/21 at 00:17:52

Donnie, thanks for the helpful input. Craig

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by piezoman on 01/28/21 at 19:08:54

interesting.

i'll take donnie's word for it over any squawker at upscale audio [imo, kevin is a bullshit artist] or anywhere else.

thanks donnie

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by Doug on 01/30/21 at 02:50:32

Hey Piezoman,

Many years ago I purchased a “like new” floor model BAT CD player from Mr. Deal at Upscale Audio for $3,000. I thought I was getting a steal on that $7,000 player, but it turned out that Mr. Deal was the real thief!  The player never worked and I sold it on eBay two years later for $800.  

You are absolutely right about his artistic abilities!


Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by Donnie on 01/30/21 at 15:23:30

I've decided to give everyone a great chance to take advantage of my great many years of research into the sonic arts.

I have finally discovered the only true way to improve the sound of any stereo system. Anything from a lowly Bluetooth speaker all the way up to mighty megabuck systems.

My study's have found that if you use Austempered low carbon 1018 molecular steel and put them into a Pearlitic state and then use a process that manipulates the crystalline substrate into a cylindrical form. Then by an external mechanical force the cylindrical form is die forged into a complex quasi polyrhythmic state.

I am willing to share these with you, my friends, for just the cost of materials and a small processing fee.

Regularly these go for $224.00 USD, but just today, and only for you, my friends, $124.24 USD, just barely above my cost.

When you receive your device, take time to admire it's elegant design, it's smooth finish, it's subtle perfection.

After admiring it, take it to your Audiophile friends and show it to them while basking in their admiration. Who has the biggest "unit" now? Well obviously you do!

So now you ask me where do you put this miracle piece of bliss in your equipment chain?

Well, you take 2 pieces of paper and insert them between the die forged curved pieces so that the papers are held together.
For best results I have found that putting a white sheet and a blue sheet together sound best.

Red paper will warm up recordings and blue will cool them down. For truly extreme problems place a black piece of paper with a white sheet, while 2 pieces of black will totally stop the process.
You then place the completed unit somewhere on the floor where it won't get stepped on or peed on by your housepets.
Now listen, have you ever heard anything sound better? Of course not, it is now exponentially better.

Anyway, contact me for how to get this miracle product.
Cash only, no checks or cards accepted.

By the way, these can be Cryo treated for an additional upcharge fo $66.12 USD, the results are sublime.




If you are in the market for a BS artist I'm your guy.

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by piezoman on 02/02/21 at 16:02:58

LOL

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by ZENTISH on 02/02/21 at 16:52:32

I remember Steve did a comparison a long time ago and concluded that the cryoed ones did indeed sound a little better.
I believe it was a batch of SV 83's that he compared but I can't be sure, too long ago. Maybe Steve remembers.

Title: Re: Cryogenic tube treatment
Post by piezoman on 02/04/21 at 16:03:39

these guys think the deep freeze thing is funny too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG-3KyURXqk

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