Post by busterfree on 09/05/20 at 21:19:43
Pass & Decware can play well together.
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1599236693 Message started by Redstar on 09/04/20 at 17:24:53 |
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Title: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Redstar on 09/04/20 at 17:24:53 So, today on Steve Guttenberg's (aka, "The Audiophiliac") YouTube program, he was reviewing a pair of the Nelson Pass-designed AmpCamp Amps (little 8 watt amps). He also compared them to Decware's SE84UFO amp. The speakers he was using were his Klipsch Cornwall IV's. Anyway, he sang the praises all around on both the AmpCamp amps and the Decware, but he never mentioned what preamp he used with the AmpCamp amps. So, when I asked him, he told me he used a Pass Labs XP-30! Now, brand new, that preamp sold for $16,500! Let that one sink in for a moment. . . all of that coin for that Nelson Pass gear and the Decware, all on its lonesome held its own. I didn't have the heart to tell Steve G. that what he meant to be a glowing endorsement of the AmpCamp amps actually was a RAVE review for the Decware amp! |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Rivieraranch on 09/04/20 at 19:43:58 He’s a holdout from the ‘70’s. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by CAJames on 09/04/20 at 21:32:36 Well, I've been listening to Pass Aleph 2s for almost 25 years and I will tell you they are fantastic amps. I bought them on USENET (if anyone else is old enough to remember that). I paid 7K$ for store demos, the most I've spent for an audio component before or since, by far. They went back for a rebuild 6 years ago, but they aren't going to last forever. I've been thinking about a replacement for a long time, because buying a current Pass amp, even used, is out of the question, and finally settled on a pair of SE84UFOs. I look forward to sharing the comparison between Pass and $2500 worth of Decware in a couple months when the UFOs (finally) arrive. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Showme on 09/05/20 at 00:14:36 I’ll be interested in your comparison for sure. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Rivieraranch on 09/05/20 at 15:58:01 $2,500 worth of DECWARE will KICK THE ASS OF NELSON PASS! Guttemberg looks like he walked off of the set of the movie “Annie Hall.” |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by seikosha on 09/05/20 at 16:50:24 I’ve got the Pass Amp Camp and a SE 84UFO. The ACA is a nice enough amp, but in my system, the Decware is much more enjoyable. That said, it’s more than double the price too. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by CAJames on 09/05/20 at 18:35:05 Quote:
That would be impressive indeed. I'd be very happy if Decware played Pass to a draw. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by busterfree on 09/05/20 at 21:19:43 Pass & Decware can play well together.
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by mastertrash on 09/05/20 at 23:04:33 I only recently joined the Decware clan after much experience with Pass amps. If you only need two watts, it’s really hard to beat the Zen Triode. I borrowed one from a friend when I got some PAP Open Baffle speakers. I was blown away! In many ways, it outperforms my $6.8K Pass X-150.8 with my new high sensitivity speakers. I was hooked from the start, and doubly so when I tried to switch back to my Pass from the Zen Triode. I am now running a ZMA and am loving it so far. In my current setup, it blows the 90 lb. Pass amp away. No contest. Pass does make great stuff. It comes down to context (what you need) and synergy. Decware does punch way above its weight with the right speakers. That said the Amp Camp Amp looks super awesome. How much fun is that? I don’t need one, but I do kind of want to build one and try it out! |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by CAJames on 09/06/20 at 01:53:44 Quote:
Very interesting, and (if possible) has me even more excited to get my Zens. Of course, as you say it is all about horses for courses. The X series are class A/B muscle amps, so pretty much exactly the opposite of a 2 watt SET. My Pass are 100 watt pure class A "SEM" (single ended MOSFET), closer to the current XA line. And maybe a little more comparable, at least philosophically, to a Zen. I can't wait to hear my new amps! |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by CAJames on 12/10/20 at 15:16:46 Quote:
Well, I've had my UFOs for about 10 days, they're broken in and I've rolled through a bunch of tubes. And I feel well qualified to say $2500 (actually closer to $3000 to be fair, but still a fraction of what I paid for my Aleph 2s 25 years ago) worth of DECWARE kicks the a$$ of Nelson Pass! Better in pretty much every way: more impactful dynamics, better bass (or mid-bass, in my room I don't get much below 40Hz), better sound stage, and the biggest improvement (and the biggest surprise to me) is how much more transparent they are. I thought my Alephs were something like the last word in transparency but I'm hearing details in big orchestras or complicated mixes that just weren't there before. The Pass amps have a seductive sweetness that is hard to beat, but I get that and much much more with my UFOs. They are amazing at any price, and a bit ridiculous for what they cost. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Rivieraranch on 12/11/20 at 01:50:45 Then based upon this thread PASS'S ASS IS GRASS! |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by CDN on 01/28/21 at 00:31:03 I have the Pure Audio Project Quintet 10 speakers, which are high efficiency and great sounding, with the right amp and cables. I recently received the Rachael amp from Decware, and I am loving it. It replaced the First Watt SIT-3 amp in my system, and the sound improved and became warmer and more liquid. I love the SIT-3, but in my system the Rachael is an improvement that is worth it. I also now use MorrowAudio cables for everything, and have found nothing that beats them, having tried a number of other brands at various price points. I also use the Pass Labs DC-12 preamp, and like it very much, even compared to using the Rachael with no preamp. Steve recommends tryng the Rachael both ways to see what sounds better, and at least to my ears, The Rachael without a preamp does not improve upon the Pass Labs preamp. YMMV, but this is my experience, it may change as the Rachael burns in with additional hours. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Steve Deckert on 01/28/21 at 03:09:33 One of those small First Watt amps that Nelson makes I believe is similar to the TORII MK4 in so much as it has intercourse with the loudspeaker vs. having no idea what kind of speaker is connected to it -- like virtually most amplifiers. That means the sound of the amplifier is effected by the speakers ever changing impedance curve. The more wild the curve, the more effected the sound becomes. At least with our TORII MK4 that means that there are going to be some speakers that just won't quite jell with it, and others that it's personality pushes over the top. Again, don't know which amp it was or if you have it, but that could be one explanation for the sound results you got. The beauty of a Triode is that it is a linear device without negative feedback, so it has stable performance into pretty much any loudspeaker load you through at. Sorry I'm not up to speed on the individual circuits of Nelson's amplifiers or I would know if yours was that design or not. Even if it's not, all else being equal, tubes are like records vs cds, they often measure worse than most transistors but sound better. If they didn't, no one in their right mind would go the trouble or the expense to create a 5 amp filament supply, run 400 volts DC, and wind expensive output transformers. I suppose the benefit for myself, is that it has always been far easier to get "the sound" I'm after with tubes. To make it happen with transistors I would have to A) have some damn special transistors and B) be at least ten times smarter... -Steve |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Rivieraranch on 01/28/21 at 10:16:32 Get a DECWARE preamplifier or ZROCK. To keep going with Nelson Pass would be crass! |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by Tripwr1964 on 01/28/21 at 23:14:16 i recently picked up a first watt j2 to drive the horns on my altec 846a's and pre is CSP3 w/ 25yr upgrades... i can tell you its a match made in heaven! Currently building a ACA now, just waiting on the case. let you know how that turns out. ive also owned a UFO2 which i like a bunch, but at time i was running planners and had no use for it. wish i still had that one!!! they are both fine sounding amps from my perspective. very interested to see what a $350 ACA kit amp sounds like. the price is right and it a super simple build. |
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Title: Re: Decware Vs. Nelson Pass? Post by CAJames on 01/29/21 at 15:55:47 I've got to give Nelson credit where credit is due. He does make a fantastic amp stand!  |
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