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SPEAKER FORUMS >> Betsy Open Baffle >> New !!! Lii 12 baffles
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Message started by Randy in Caintuck on 08/10/20 at 01:01:32

Title: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 08/10/20 at 01:01:32

Lii Audio has recently released a new full range driver ..... the F-12.

It is somewhat of a scaled down version of the F-15 driver with a few changes.

In addition to being smaller, it has an acrylic compound phase plug instead of wood ..... although it is my understanding that the phase plug of the F-15 might change to acrylic in the future.

The sensitivity / efficiency is rated at 94 DB which means that they will work extremely well with a Decware SE84UFO amplifier.

I have been living with a pair of prototype F-12 drivers for the past few weeks and like them a lot.

Here is a photo of the prototypes in my listening room .....

Larger photo here.

The tonal balance of the Lii 12 baffles leans more toward the upper midrange and high frequencies than the Lii 15 baffles, which have a stronger lower midrange and upper bass.

Both are very good ..... and which one is "best" will depend on the listening room, amplifier used and personal taste.

In the photo above, the Lii 12s are paired with twin Lii Audio prototype 12" bass drivers powered by a pair of small plate amplfiiers.
The sound is excellent ..... a true full range system .....

I have also paired them with a small powered subwoofer and the results were good, as well.

Here are a couple of photos of the F-12 drivers -

The Lii 12s make a good replacement for the recently discontinued "Betsy & Buck" baffles with the benefit of using a single driver and slightly higher efficiency.

The Lii 12s have been added to the Price List on my website.

They also have their own web page which will be updated in the near future.

As always, I am happy to respond to emails with questions about the Lii 12 baffles.

Happy listening,
Randy

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by benzxc on 08/11/20 at 11:06:15

Congratulations Randy. They look fantastic and I am sure they sound great too! I'm glad that I ordered a pair of the Betsy & Bucks before you discontinued them!

Best,
Ben

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 08/11/20 at 15:09:27

Hi Ben,

The Betsy & Buck baffles are some of the best sounding speakers that I have ever offered. If the decision hadn't been made to discontinue plywood baffles, I would still be making them .....

Best wishes and happy listening,
Randy

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by SteveB on 10/20/20 at 18:07:56

I managed to get a pair of the Lii 12" speakers. I am curious about the cutout diameter. I can't seem to find it listed anywhere. I am making an open baffle similar to yours out of plywood I already have. I may do a little upsizing. I was very impressed by your speakers at the 2018 Decfest. Have you had a chance to hear Steve Wilson's remastered Jethro Tull albums?

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 10/20/20 at 19:07:42

Hi Steve,

The F-12 driver does not fit in the opening of the template I use for the Eminence Alpha 12 driver.
I had to use a chamfer bit in my router to enlarge the opening to make it sit flat on the baffle.

I have the Steve Wilson's remastered Aqualung CD, but didn't know that there were other albums available from him.
Thanks for the heads up .....

Best wishes,
Randy

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by SteveB on 10/20/20 at 22:55:45

Thanks for the info. I listen on Spotify. I guess I will have to take my best shot in the dark. I think I have a lid from a stewpot that may work. The last time I cut I drivers I used a sawzall....never again. I invested in a skill saw. Many thanks for all of your hard work.

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by SteveB on 11/10/20 at 08:40:46

I would like to thank you Randy for the inspiration. Ever since I heard the Betsy baffles I was in love. Lii audio added the cutout diameter to their website. I believe it is 285mm.

I slapped a pair together Saturday night with some scrap plywood I found in my garage. These are "test" baffles. I cut the driver openings 1/2" too big. Next time around I will use 1"instead of 3/4" plywood. Here is a photo.

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by johnnycopy on 11/11/20 at 16:59:01

My eyes may be deceiving me steve, but the cutout looks a little high on your baffle.

Interested to hear Randy chime in regarding any impact that has sonically, positive or negative.

They look great and hope you like em.

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by SteveB on 11/12/20 at 01:39:56

Thank you for the compliments. Your eyes are not playing tricks on you. I decided to mount the drivers at a 1/3 of the way from the top and 2/3 from the bottom. There are advantages to doing it that way.

Still working on break in, but they sound fantastic. I used a scrap piece of plywood for the baffles and some MDF stair tread for the bases. I spent less than $20 building them and slapped them together in less than four hours. To get the curve I used three drywall screws and a piece of PVC pipe. Just a quick and dirty "prototype" ;D

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by johnnycopy on 11/12/20 at 04:48:56

Tell me about your sense of the tradeoffs of higher driver placement?

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by SteveB on 11/12/20 at 06:38:20

It is not really a trade off. Offsetting the driver helps to smooth out resonance. Rounding the baffle helps with that too. The "1/3,2/3 rule" was borrowed from from the use of exiters. The distance of the driver from the floor can affect the bass response. That can be tested by turning the baffles up side down.

Title: Re: New !!! Lii 12 baffles
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 11/12/20 at 15:14:25

What Steve is saying is absolutely true .....

The amount of lower midrange and bass that the speakers will produce depends on two things -
1 - the size (surface area) of the baffle
2 - the distance of the driver from the floor (and other room boundaries)

The first Betsy baffles I made had the driver mounted in the center of the baffle.
Shortly after that, I moved the drivers slightly closer to the top of the baffle. It was done primarily for aesthetic reasons, but there was definitely a change in the tonal balance of the speakers.

A few weeks ago, a customer visited me and brought his Betsy baffles with him ..... they were one of the first pairs with the drivers mounted in the center. We did an A / B with a more recent pair of Betsy baffles and there was a definite difference in the sound.

As to which was "better", that would depend on the other factors such as the listening room, associated equipment and personal taste .....

The bottom line is that you can "season to taste" the sound of open baffle speakers by changing the size of the baffles and experimenting with the position of the drivers on the baffle.

Happy listening,
Randy