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Message started by piezoman on 06/30/20 at 21:12:14

Title: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 06/30/20 at 21:12:14

Hello all,

After 16 weeks of waiting, my ZBIT and ZROCK2-25th mods orders are being shipped as of today, and my Taboo MK IV-25th mods in the final stage of QA and on the brink of shipment.

My typical listening habits are such that it will take months of normal listening to hit the 100+ hr. milestone. In order to help speed the process up, I've obtained 2 of the popular break-in files [ I dont use the CD format]........I'm thinking of running about 10 music albums on perpetual repeat, broken up by the 2 different break-in files [ Isotek System Enhancer is one of them ], all run 7 days in a row. During this, I will turn the whole system off for a bit, then turn it back to cycle the on/off condition -- probably 5-10 times.

I wont be able to turn up the volume much, so full speaker break-in will have to lag for awhile. The point of this whole exercise is to get the electronics and cables broken in as fully as is practical in the period of a week.

Is this a solid plan? Any tips?

Brad

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by Donnie on 06/30/20 at 22:35:36

Point the speakers at each other, reverse the polarity on one of them, cover with a heavy blanket.
5 hours on, 5 hours off , repeat until your wife yells at you, then turn them up real loud and yell back at her!

Whenever she will talk to you without that "look", your equipment is broken in.

Works every time.

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by GroovySauce on 06/30/20 at 22:41:43

Donnie, What if you don't have a wife? 8-)

ooo exciting!

For the ZBIT Just play 24/7.

ZR2. It’s an always on device. I would unplug it at night and plug it in, in the morning. Power cycling like that seems to increase the burn-in speed. 1-2 weeks of that and it should be settled.

Taboo, Play the music you enjoy. When you don’t want music from the speakers, maybe headphones? if so leave them playing at normal or slightly louder listening volume. I’d be comfortable leaving it on while I sleep although it might not be advisable depending on your situation.

If you did do that I would leave the ZR2 plugged in over night and off when away from home.

I would use the burn-in tracks sparingly. Play full range music.

Good luck.

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by will on 06/30/20 at 23:26:13

In the past explanations I recall, the on-off thing seems a lot about caps "seating" ....the five hours on, five hours off protocol about full heat up and full cool down, not just caps, but everything being "flexed" from heating and cooling, while responding to musical signals. I am pretty sure you can benefit from this general guideline for many, many cycles..... And luckily, Jupiter caps are above average in burnin friendliness, sounding pretty good right off, making burnin funner, but still getting more and more refined for a long time.

To me, these amps take hundreds of hours to fully "burn in." 100 hours is a good start, but you will likely hear things moving around in sound quality for 300+, then more subtly up to ±600, finally reaching relative stability somewhere in there. Then "seasoning" continues subtle refinements.

I also try to play a variety of different music I like to hear, especially sure to mix in some with a lot of transients (like the Sheffield drum tracks and Gotan Project), fast and stronger transients good seeming as part of the "flexing" and "conditioning" of all those wires and parts.

It has been a long time, but back in the day, though all burnin CDs were not created equal, there was no question to me (then) that the Esoteric/TDK CD (along with music) sped up the process....And later, using a Frybaby2 to burn in parts for modifications before putting them in the gear really did help me get close to good sound, music usually close to finishing it up within days or a week for the most part. The Frybaby seems to be similar to a burnin CD, the idea being to run various frequencies, waves, intensities, speeds that are supposed to do what music does, but more quickly...but there do seem to be more effective and less effective patterns.

Similar to Groovy suggesting caution with this, I have heard folks who advise against burnin tracks, I believe Mapleshade (?) even saying it will hurt, but have not heard a clear explanation of why, except that music is what we use our system for, so burnin with it....At the same time, having had a number of amps and other things to burn in over years, in the past I felt the Esoteric along with music helped. And in my recent experience, the Frybaby2 is a real lifesaver, no doubt in my mind getting me much closer to hearing the real effect of a part, wire, or cable change without weeks or months of playing.

Hopefully someone who has concerns about using burnin tracks can offer some good explanations as to the why's?

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 07/01/20 at 00:32:26

fascinating, everyone!

i will follow your tips instead.

i will await on anyone else who advises against frequency burn-in tracks.....in the meantime i will forego this part of the equation.

a big thanks to everyone so far!!!

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by ArtMan on 07/01/20 at 00:43:14

I thought I would throw in one observation I have made with burn-in. I think I am mostly talking about electronic equipment/capacitors. This was also true some with speaker burn-in. It may have been more subtly true with cables.

I would often play the system during the day, sometimes for hours, sometimes off between each play. The next day I would try to see if I could hear some changes from the previous day. Sometimes I could hear changes, other times not so much.

Occasionally during burn-in, I would not be able to play the stereo for at least a couple days for various reasons. It was after being turned off for a couple days where I would hear the greater changes. There was a sense of greater refinement, often in the highs, sometimes further down in the spectrum. I'm not sure if I am recommending you do so but it is an observation that still engages my curiosity.

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 07/01/20 at 00:44:50

Oh and Donnie, you crack me up ;D

Can you further explain this business with "....Point the speakers at each other, reverse the polarity on one of them, cover with a heavy blanket.
5 hours on, 5 hours off , repeat...."?

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 07/01/20 at 00:49:19

Artman, that's cool info....its along the lines of some of will's comments on the subject of cap cycling ["seating"].

So maybe 5-8 hrs "on", then 5-8 hrs "off", maybe mix in a 24 hr. "off" period here and there, not necessarily all in a pattern.

Its looking more like 2 weeks on a concerted effort here, but that's ok........its better than 6 months :o

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by Donnie on 07/01/20 at 01:16:05

piezoman wrote on 07/01/20 at 00:44:50:

Piezo,

You take your speakers and push them face to face together, reverse the wires on one of them to reverse the polarity of that speaker, so that it cancels out the sound of the other, (kind of how noise canceling headphones work). You throw a heavy blanket over them to muffle the noise a bit more and then play the stereo through them for 5 hours on and 5 hours off.

The wife yelling part is totally optional!

PS, Play only music through them, you want your music to break them in, really, would I josh you??

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 07/01/20 at 01:22:07

Donnie, the crack me up comment related to all the yelling, because that's highly probable, LOL

Interesting procedure you mentioned. I'll give that a shot as well. Thank you!

Brad

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 07/02/20 at 16:16:06

I've emailed Steve to see what he thinks about the notion of system break-in files.

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by Steve Deckert on 07/02/20 at 18:19:02

Burn-in is primarily about seating the dielectric and foil of the signal capacitors. Once seated, the two quit moving against each other and the smear in the sound goes away. This is done by both temperature cycles and signal propagation through the capacitor. Signal propagation has an effect on how it will happen. Signal propagation is training the the layers on how to seat together. If you use a square or triangle wave as an example you are training the cap to sound perfect reproducing square or triangle waves. If you use pink noise, you are training the cap to excel at reproducing pink noise. If you use low resolution / compressed music you are training the cap to sound good with that. If you use well recorded musical instruments to train your caps, the only thing with the textures, harmonics and micro-details that audiophiles love, then your caps will excel at all types of music.

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 07/02/20 at 19:50:09

Thank you Steve for that excellent explanation.

Any tips on procedures for burn-in? Electronics and speakers.

Brad

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by Steve Deckert on 07/03/20 at 03:12:33

I would simply echo much of what has already been covered in this thread. So from a different perspective, here are some more thoughts on the subject:

Some manufactures make a big enough deal about break-in that we as consumers begin to accept that things will sound like crap until they burn-in at which point they will somehow transmute into a hi-end piece of audio gear and sound heavenly. I don't particularly agree with is, or the approach.

Since it is possible to make an audio component sound any way you want it too as a designer it is hard for me to see why relying on break-in is a good idea. Instead I just design it to sound better from the start. I mean if break-in can make a component sound 10/20% better, then why not design it to sound 20 or 30% better from the get go... stone cold off the bench as we like to say. Then it will sound better than a competitors fully burned-in piece the first time you hear it and continue to elevate as it breaks in. Hell it sounded so good pre burn-in that no one cares if it ever burns in. The fact that is does is just a beautiful bonus.

The same is true if not more so with loudspeakers. This nonsense of having a shrill top end that mellows over time, or no image focus until the caps break-in, etc., are just more of the same thing. With loudspeakers, the woofer will always be extra stiff for the first 40 hours diminishing bass response, and yes everything smooths out and gels with time, but if you don't like the way it sounds after 40 hours, the best you can hope for is that you will like the sound with time. More than likely the adjective "love" the sound will not ever be present. So get speakers that sound great before they burn in and you will have little to worry about.

Steve

Title: Re: system break-in
Post by piezoman on 07/04/20 at 00:18:03

Steve,

Thank you very much for your highly enlightening comments.

Brad