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Message started by RichardM on 05/27/20 at 16:45:45

Title: Greetings
Post by RichardM on 05/27/20 at 16:45:45

Hello everyone. Another total newbie here. I've never owned any tube equipment before. I've dabbled on the entry-level of hi-fi a bit over the years but never went beyond that.

I have an okay home theater system but now I want to build a dedicated music system. I found Decware through Caintuck & Audio Circle open baffle threads, and proceeded to read through the entire 30-page Big Betsy saga, which was fascinating.

So, no specific questions yet, though I'm sure those will be coming soon. Mainly just wanted to say hello and establish a first post!

Oh and my room is roughly 24x24x8.5 but is asymmetrical, to include a couple of 45-degree ceiling sections. A fun acoustic challenge!

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by Lon on 05/27/20 at 17:26:24

Greetings, and welcome!

I actually have a similar room with one of my systems. I'm lucky that the Decware HR-1 speakers work so well in that situation.

There are many knowledgable and perhaps even more important KIND persons here who will help.

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by GroovySauce on 05/29/20 at 14:30:58

Welcome.

Even with your room being a square it’s large so you have a lot to work with.

A well designed tube circuit brings a magic to music playback that I got seduced by many years ago.

Worth your time to read the threads here and ask questions. This is the best high end audio forum on the internet.

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by RichardM on 05/30/20 at 05:16:32

Thanks for the warm welcomes. Yeah that's the mode I'm in right now: read, read, read. Learning a lot but of course there's a lot of uncertainty about the best way to proceed!

I did a drawing of my room. I'll try to post it later. It's decent sized but definitely has some challenges...

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by RichardM on 05/31/20 at 05:12:23

Okay, so I'm planning to build DIY ZF15M open baffle speakers soon (with help from a veteran wood worker).

Essentially, I'm building the chain backwards, substituting out older hardware for newer as I obtain each piece. I want to "do it right the first time" with each purchase as much as possible.

All that being said, would 2x SE84UFO25 mono for the amplifiers be "doing it right" here? For now, input will come from an Oppo UDP-205 which I already own. I could insert a ZSTAGE inbetween those, if needed. Any thoughts here? Thanks!

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by RichardM on 05/31/20 at 22:23:15

Well I decided the answer was "yes" and just jumped in with both feet.

GULP. :o

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by hells on 05/31/20 at 22:23:43

From my understanding (in the SS world) and posts on here, you'd be *much* better served sonically going with a ZMA and pocketing the change, instead of going for a monoblock. You won't need the power, and it will come at a cost in dynamics. Also a literal cost as well ;D

Or you can try any of the other amps and see how you fare, I'm betting one SE84UFO25 will satisfy you just as well too!

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by RichardM on 06/01/20 at 05:49:07

Thank you for the feedback. Could you expound on that a bit more? I'm not certain I follow what you're saying... I won't need the power gained from mono SE84UFO25's? But if that's the case, why is the alternative the ZMA?

I could certainly start with one amp. I guess I'm just a newbie whose skeptical of the 2w capabilities with respect to my listening preferences. I haven't heard this kind of equipment, probably ever. The idea of waiting months for the product only to potentially find that I need to order a second one sounds like a real bummer. So I guess that's where my mind is/was at. I placed an order but considering there is a queue, I suspect I can make changes if needed. But I would certainly rather only change it once.

Again, thanks for that and any further help. Much appreciated :)

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by GroovySauce on 06/01/20 at 14:51:00

One thing to consider. If you get two SE84UFO25ths and one is enough power. You could most likely sell the second at very close to what you paid for it.

How far away you sit from your speakers and how loud you like to play will also be a factor.

If you want to change or modify your order shoot Sarah a message and she will get it sorted.

The wait time can be brutal, it’s all worth it in the end.

What are you running as a source?

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by RichardM on 06/01/20 at 15:16:24

Initially CDs through a Oppo UDP-205 and I'm in the process of assembling an Allo DigiOne Signature streamer.

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by hells on 06/01/20 at 18:36:29

Hey Richard,

Well I suggested the ZMA as the top king in sonics if you are concerned about wattage. Though I haven't heard one, I too was worried if 2 watts could be enough. Depending on the recording, it can be. But it can run out of steam unless you have very efficient speakers. The sound quality can't be beat if you work within its envelope though.

I went with a cheaper 20w SS amp to see if 20 watts could do it for me, and it totally does. So I went with the Torii Jr. Remember when you double wattage, you only get 3db more gain. So a lot of bang for the buck is lost as you start getting way higher in the wattage department.

I'd also suggest reading on how tube amps differ from SS amps in regards to "watts". The watts aren't bigger per se, but since they're voltage devices versus current devices, the apparent loudness is in the tube amps favor. There's a lot to read and ponder.

If you can afford to do a SE84UFO25 monoblock setup, then do it! Only you can answer if you're happy, as Groovy said, you can likely get back the asking price (since you got it 10% off right now) or very close.

If you aren't too far into the DigiOne, I'd suggest looking at the pi2aes, cheaper and it sounds like it wins in that department.

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by Archie on 06/01/20 at 18:50:51

My 2 cents as a ZMA owner.

I have a very large room and F15s in the big baffles. I play loud and sometimes I still push my ZMA. I don't know how much of its 40 watts I'm using but I'd rather have reserve than wanting more. Also, with my HR1s (92.5 db) I often ran out of juice. Based on Steve's early posts about the SE84UFO25, I figured I'd need 2 to stay competitive.

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by RichardM on 06/02/20 at 00:11:10

Man, it's a tough call. Archie -- When you play loud, have you ever measured the sound level? Just curious how loud we're talking :)

The only reference I have is a few days ago I was listening to the White Stripes and I had a db meter app running on my phone. I was under 90db (C-weighted) the whole time and it felt loud enough for me. I'm not sure how accurate that is, however.

I do already have my DigiOne shield so I'll probably play around with it for a while before jumping into another option there, but it's nice that these pi shield products are so cheap. You don't really have to worry too much about wasting money on them, relative to just about anything else you might purchase in your entire chain!

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by hells on 06/02/20 at 00:15:21

Indeed! My levels are usually 80db with spikes to 85. To put my experience into context with my Omega's and the SE84UFO25. I am wondering how loud Archie listens to it :O but since he's at 92.5 sensitivity, I'm guessing it's around 90. Can't imagine 40 watts clipping before that too easily. Depends on recording and genre as well!

You don't run out of juice on the F15's do you Archie? That would surprise me.

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by Archie on 06/02/20 at 00:53:18

Depending on how the recording was pressed (vinyl) I can get to the point of my meters twitching but typically I don't max out the ZMA. I get a little worried about damaging the F15s sometimes. My room is really big and I have 12/12 vaulted ceilings and it's open to my second floor. The sound has lots of places to go.

The 100 db F15s make a big difference. But, my experience is that greater speaker efficiency only results in my playing louder. Even though the sound is still great at lower volumes.

I would love to try a 2 watt zen amp in my space but I don't have the confidence to buy one untried. If I were just starting out, I'd be conflicted too.

Oh, about sound pressure, with the HR1s I once did some measurements and I definitely got into the 90s. BTW, my ears don't ring after a listening session. ;)

Title: Re: Greetings
Post by Tony Adams on 08/29/23 at 03:43:27

welcome