Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl EQUIPMENT FORUMS >> ZP3 / ZMC1,2,3 >> Voltage regulator flickering constantly https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1588206635 Message started by Scott R. on 04/30/20 at 01:30:35

Title: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Scott R. on 04/30/20 at 01:30:35 Hi everyone, I was lucky enough to pick up a used, mint condition ZP3, and I'm amazed at the sound quality and the build quality.  It's the quietest phono stage I've ever had in my system.  And it's my my first Decware product (won't be my last!).   I've had it for about a week, and there haven't been any issues.  Today, however, the voltage regulator tube started flashing like a strobe light.  The song I was listening to didn't seem to change in terms of sound quality.  I powered the unit down and restarted it, but the tube now flashes constantly. Is this the indication of a bad tube?  I don't have another OA3 tube, so I can't just swap out right now.  I place an order for a new OA3 an a new rectifier tube, but I didn't want to use the unit in the meantime in case there was a more serious issue.   Any thoughts on what might cause this?  I'll update when I get the new tubes and give them a try. Thanks, and I hope you and your loved ones are safe and healthy in these difficult times. All the best, Scott

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Lon on 04/30/20 at 11:06:44 Scott, on my SE84UFO3 amps when an 0A3 flashes the amp is actually clipping. If yours flashes no matter the output or the material it is likely not for that reason. Could be the tube is bad. Hope this gets settled soon.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by NormD on 04/30/20 at 12:47:42 I believe it is normal for the regulator tube to flash when the amp is initially turned on or off, but not constantly.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by JBzen on 04/30/20 at 18:01:57 Scott, I have limited experience with the ZP3. I owned one for 2 weeks now and as others have said it is normal for the OA3 to flash when powering down. I did noticed today that it will also flash during power up when the input cables are too close to the the tube. Might have something to do with the ground shield in the cables HTH John

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Archie on 04/30/20 at 18:19:21 I've had my ZP3 for 6 years or so.  As others have said, the OA3 flashes during startup and shutdown.  I've never had mine flash during operation.   I'd check the tube socket first.  Make sure there is no corrosion on the tube pins or the sockets.  There is a way of checking the pin tension for each pin but that requires a sacrificial tube with all but one pin cut off.  If you feel up to it, pull the base and have a look at the connections to the socket as well.  You can also try a different tube. If you pull the base, remember that capacitors may be charged!

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Scott R. on 04/30/20 at 19:18:38 Thanks for the input, everyone.  To clarify - the tube didn't flicker for the first few days I had the unit (except on startup and shutdown). However, now it looks like a strobe light the entire time that the unit is powered up, whether I'm playing a record or not.  I took out the OA3 and the rectifier and checked, cleaned the pins.  But the flickering hasn't changed.  I tend to listen in a darker room, so it's extremely distracting visually, too.   I will let you know if the new tube solves the problem.  I only have a 14-day return window, so if I can't solve it soon I'll have to send it back. :( Hope you're all well, Scott

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Archie on 04/30/20 at 19:32:33 Another option with the seller might be to get a discount so you can send the ZP3 to Steve for repair and warranty transfer.  But hopefully, it's just a bad tube.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by will on 04/30/20 at 22:28:20 Scott, I don't know the ZP3. But my Torii IV has OA3s as a regulator/filters for the power tubes, and OC2s for the input tubes. After a few years of a lot of tube rolling, on one channel the OC2 would flash on and off, mainly at startup and shut down if I recall correctly. But this was not normal for the Torii. Just after turning off the amp power, if I pulled the input tube on that side, the OC2 would stop flashing. Steve suggested it might be a loose input tube/socket connection. I don't think it was, as I carefully tightened the socket pin grabbers to no benefit. And later, it was solved after I did some amp modifications...I can't remember exactly what, but probably something in the power supply. But this makes me wonder about yours being a loose tube connection, though not necessarily the OA3. The ZP3 writeup says "OA3 tube regulation for entire circuit." Speculation, not being able to look inside, but I am guessing, this is referring to the entire signal circuit, and not the rectifier. Since your pre was acting normally at first, the OA3 strobing only on startup and shut dow, and sounds good...I wonder if you had cleaned up the 12AX7 and 12AU7 tube pins too, and checked for firm socket connections? I suppose it may be that you are getting oscillation from a slightly loose/weak connection in the circuit the OA3 is feeding. Other than your rectifier, your tubes probably run pretty cool. You may be able diagnose a poor socket connection by very gently grabbing your small signal tubes with a cotton glove or rag, and while holding it vertically, very gently put tension on the connections by turning each tube just a little in its socket? If the flickering stops with one or another tube tighter, that might show that a tube socket adjustment would help.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by JBzen on 04/30/20 at 22:40:27 I have to agree aesthetics are important. The ZP3 has very pleasing alure in a darken room. After reading up on the owners manual, the only thing that makes it glow is the current from the rectfier. Maybe it had a bumpy ride in transit and just showed up now as an itermitting connection inside the tube. Heat breaks the connection...cooling bridges the connection. Hopefully it is just the tube. Would be a bummer to let the piece go! My ZP3 has never flashed on startup except today when my input cables somehow got wrapped on the regulator(OA3). Odd thing is the previous owner moved the inputs to the front of the unit. Hmmm...must be a zen thing :) Good luck John

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by will on 05/01/20 at 00:18:39 I have had a number of old rectifiers go over the years. But in my experience they either work fine, or, when they go, they are gone, shorting out and blowing a fuse...no in-betweens here anyway.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Archie on 05/01/20 at 01:03:36 This may have nothing to do with anything but I cover my amps with a wool blanket and often when it rubs on the ZP3 OA3 tube, the tube flickers.  This happens even when the amp has been off for a long time.  I'm guessing that the wool on the glass sets up a static charge that influences the tube.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Scott R. on 05/01/20 at 03:26:40 I took out all the tubes an checked the pins and then reinstalled them.  I also tried several different outlets in the house and a couple of different power cords. I even swapped the extra fuse in the fuse holder in.  Still no difference.   If you're interested, here's a 5-second clip of what's going on.   https://youtu.be/asVzGK7G-Gs The new tubes may arrive tomorrow, so I will post my findings then. Thanks, Scott

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Archie on 05/01/20 at 14:25:39 Just for kicks, can you try a different power cord? So you don't feel alone, I'm trying to track down a right channel whine during initial warm up -- 20 to 30 minutes, that I think is coming from my ZMA .  I'm in process of swapping tubes side to side.  Power tubes tonight!

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Scott R. on 05/01/20 at 15:28:50 Yes, I did swap power cords, but that didn't make a difference. I think I've addressed all the variables that I can a this point - now it's just a case of waiting for the new tubes to arrive.  Fingers crossed...

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by will on 05/01/20 at 16:48:17 Hey Scott, Hopefully it is simple, and the coming tubes solve it, or help narrow it down. If not tubes though, just checking the tube pins does not address a weak tube socket connection. Those little pin grabbers can definitely get loose.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Scott R. on 05/02/20 at 23:33:39 Hi everyone, Well, so far, good!  The new tubes arrived, and the new OA3 does not flicker at all.  All the other tubes all appear to be ok.  I am cautiously optimistic at this point.  I appreciate all of the helpful suggestions.   Right now, I'm listening to Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage and enjoying every note.  What a great phono stage!   All the best, Scott

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by will on 05/02/20 at 23:46:20 Great news. Interesting too. I have never had a VR go bad.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Lon on 05/03/20 at 00:02:21 Great news! Here's hoping it was just that one tube.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by GroovySauce on 05/03/20 at 01:23:14 Glad it sounds like it’s sorted now. What phono pre did you have previously?

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by Scott R. on 05/03/20 at 01:33:24 My previous phono preamps have been: ELAC PPA2, Croft RIAA Phono, and Avid Pellar.  Liked the Pellar the best of those three. The Croft was the only tubed stage I tried, but it was far too noisy in my system.   The Decware easily outpaces any of the above. Thanks, Scott

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by GroovySauce on 05/03/20 at 20:49:09 Glad you are enjoying it.  Mine should be arriving in the next week or so.  I’m really excited.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by hells on 06/10/20 at 23:24:42 Interested to hear what you think of yours Groove as I plan on getting a P8 and Apheta 3 to match sometime this year. With the ZP3 being the obvious candidate for a phono stage!

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by GroovySauce on 06/11/20 at 16:04:41 I'm very happy with the Rega P8 and SS Zephyr combo. I cannot give a fair comparison to other table cartridge combos I've heard, it's in a completely different system. I previously had a Basis Audio 2200 w/ Vector 3 arm and Benz Ruby 3 cartridge. That was the pinnacle of my analogue system until I got this combo. Paired with the ZP3-25th it delivers exactly what I want. The soundstage it recreates, dynamics, richness, detail and other things that are desirable are all there. It's quieter than my PS Audio DSD dac! the noise floor is so low! the silence between cuts is exactly that, silence. In my old system in my old house when listening to vinyl I would get lost in the music, however, there would be little cues to pull you out reminding me that I was listening to vinyl. Part of that was the VTL TP-5.5 and VTL TL 6.5 had audible hum and other noise that I could never get rid of. My new setup what reminds me I'm listening to vinyl is, sitting in silence for a few seconds before realizing I need to go change sides.  ;D I do get wanting the synergy of Rega table and Rega cartridge. I would encourage you to look into the Sound Smith Zephyr MIMC Star at a similar price point. I did buy an Acoustic Signature Spacer Kit so I can dial in SRA.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by hells on 06/12/20 at 06:17:23 I’ve been reading about that cartridge all day. Quite interesting, looks really great! Where did you buy the spacers from? AS seems a bit hard to find unless my Google Fu failing me. How did you find the process of installing and getting it all setup on the Rega tonearm? That’s a huge selling point for the Apheta for me as fiddling with that usually drives me nuts.

Title: Re: Voltage regulator flickering constantly Post by GroovySauce on 06/12/20 at 14:09:01 I bought them from thecableco.com. I bought the cartridge and table at the same time. They installed it for me. Instantly I knew something was wrong. They set the overhang correctly not the SRA. The Rega arm does not have azimuth adjustment. Sound Smith cartridges have a system built in to adjust azimuth if needed. The Acoustic Signature spacer kit makes adjusting the SRA very easy. You will need a t20 torx. Loosen the 3 screws, rock the arm a little while pulling up, slide the spacers in, then retighten. Being super careful took maybe 5 minutes the first time. About 2 minutes the second time. I bought a Herbies grungebuster as well. I don't like felt or wool mats.

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