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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Power https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1577033551 Message started by instinct2 on 12/22/19 at 16:52:31 |
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Title: Power Post by instinct2 on 12/22/19 at 16:52:31 We’re having some electric work done in the house and got me thinking about upgrading the power to a dedicated audio room power. Was thinking off adding 20amp breaker with Audioquest Edison 20amp wall outlet. Other thought is just do a ZLC and not pay for the electrician to add a new line. Or would the ZLC benefit from the dedicated line? |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Geno on 12/22/19 at 17:45:28 Since you’re already having electrical work done, go for the dedicated line. That’s the way to go! |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Archie on 12/22/19 at 17:54:03 Do both. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by ScottNC on 12/22/19 at 17:55:33 I agree with Arch, do both. Best, Scott |
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Title: Re: Power Post by instinct2 on 12/22/19 at 18:07:06 Any recommendations on type of wire and breaker to use? |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Archie on 12/22/19 at 18:44:33 I know there are a lot of high priced options but I remember Steve extolling the virtues of heavy gauge copper Romex. I'm not sure what options you'll have if you follow the Electrical Code which will require Arc Fault breakers. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Donnie on 12/22/19 at 22:26:16 I run 300-400 foot of extension cord over to my neighbor's place to get my 'trisity. No need of me paying for the stuff, it just shoots out of the sky as lightin' anyway. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Dominick on 12/23/19 at 01:14:36 Donnie at that length...your extension cord would be like what...4 gauge wire to not get any voltage drop. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by GroovySauce on 12/23/19 at 03:50:54 When I had dedicated lines run to my stereo in my old house I had them install yellow Romex and hospital outlets. I don't know if that was the best way to go however, I did notice that my stereo sounded better. I had them run 4 lines actually. 1 for each monoblock. 1 for the phono and 1 more for everything else. Preamp might have been on with the phono. If you run more than one line, check they are in phase. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Lonely Raven on 12/23/19 at 16:43:20 I'm the nutter that actually ran Z-Styx type 8AWG wire from the circuit breaker to a dedicated PS Audio outlet. I was surprised to find it actually made a difference! IMHO - A great, low resistance ground and dedicated (home run) line were the key points. They did far more than the fancy outlet did. Do whatever you can to lower electrical resistance and add the power filter and you'll be golden. Also, since you're having the electrical work done, see if they can inspect the grounding rod, and measure the resistance to ground. Tell them that you need better than NEC (National Electric Code) because you have "sensitive equipment that needs a very low resistance ground". At my old house I had two different electricians balk at this, and I had to point out to them that NEC is about safety, not quality. I wound up adding an extra grounding rod myself to further lower resistance because these guys just didn't get it. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by 4krow on 12/23/19 at 17:32:39 LR, What is the insulation used in the Z-styx? I hear all the BS that those who work with AC power in a general way, often balk at anything that they weren't read to out of a book. They would freak out at what grounding is done at a microwave site. No it wouldn't be needed for home use, but I would rather be past the line than short of it. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Archie on 12/23/19 at 17:41:34 Did you use conduit for the Z-styx? I'd be surprised if it's rated for in-wall use without. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by instinct2 on 12/24/19 at 03:13:10 Lonely Raven - did you go with one 20amp circuit and outlet? Or go with a standard 15amp? I started thinking. Would I need 20amp wires going to my equipment if I have a 20amp line if I installed? Is Decware’s power conditioner going to only run 15amp anyways? This power stuff is confusing, lol. Also since you brought up the zstyx wiring. I brought this up on it’s dedicated forum a week ago, but haven’t heard anything. “Is the sheath option on the cables just for visual looks or does it have a sonic addition? Do most go un-terminated when buying these?” |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Donnie on 12/24/19 at 04:20:51 Yes you would need heavier wire to use a 20 amp breaker to its fullest potential. Unless you are thinking of some sort of insurance job to get rid of some of those pesky bills. Now you have to ask yourself if you need 2400 watts of power to run your equipment. (120 volts X 20 amps = 2400 watts). |
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Title: Re: Power Post by instinct2 on 12/24/19 at 04:36:30 Donnie I was meaning from the outlet to each piece of equipment or from a power conditioner to each piece. DH1-C power cord work with 20amp power outlet? |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Lonely Raven on 12/24/19 at 07:32:54 Quote:
Z-Styx wire is a Milspec (aerospace) silver plated copper wire with Teflon insulation. Quote:
I did use conduit, and the Teflon insulation made it super easy to pull thee 8AWG wires through 45' of conduit. This wire is literally used in satellites and jets; I'm sure it far surpasses NEC code, but I'm also sure isn't recognized by NEC code either. So conduit was the obvious choice, and maybe shielded the wires as well (shrug). Quote:
Yes, there is a specific gauge required for 20 amp circuit and outlet. The 8AWG I used far surpasses that - but again, my goal was lower resistance. And Hospital grade outlets are usually just fine if you're on a budget - they hold the wires well on the back side, and have strong springs to grip the plug on the front side, and typically have a more robust ground. If you're having an electrician run the circuit, make sure it's a home run back to the panel. Pick a quality 20 amp outlet (hospital, or audiophile or whatever) and just use the thickest gauge wire the outlet can safely handle. If the electrician balks and says you don't need anything more than 12 gauge for a 20 amp circuit, but the outlet can take 10 gauge...tell him to just use the damn 10 gauge and get back to work! LOL Quote:
A standard 20 amp outlet can take your typical 15 amp plug, or the 20 amp plugs that has one of the blades perpendicular. My setup was Home Run 20amp circuit to PS Audio filtered outlet, to my PS Audio P10 which could easily handle all my Decware gear, and my home theater gear at the same time...with the exception of the sub-woofer amps. The P10 doesn't like the 2400 watt sub woofer amps, and I've actually tripped the 20 amp circuit with just one of the big amps. So for home theater action I ran a second run of conduit with two 20 amp circuits, 10 gauge off the shelf wire, and two Hospital grade outlets; One circuit for each 2400 watt amp. So ultimately I had three home run 20 amp circuits - the original "audiophile" one for my Decware gear and home theater receiver/blue ray, then two more common ones each dedicated to a subwoofer amp. I'm pretty sure the new owners of the house are baffled by all the outlets along that one wall; but the house sold within 48 hours of me posting it and had three buyers putting in offers...so I must have done something right. :) |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Archie on 12/24/19 at 16:25:23 I think the Code allows for 80% or something for a given circuit. So a 20 amp breaker is rated for 16 amps in actual use. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Lonely Raven on 12/27/19 at 20:25:03 Quote:
I believe 16 amps *constant* current is the recommendation for safety when calculating devices and lights on a circuit. This gives you a little bit of a buffer for peaks - such as when you turn on a space heater might draw 10 amps during startup but idles at 4 amps. There are commercial/industrial breakers that are rated at 100% Amperage, but I'm not even sure they would fit into our typical home circuit panels. The breakers are like slow blow fuses, they won't pop if you peak 20 amps, but they will if you're running constant current near 20 amps. Hence me popping 20 amp circuits during bass heavy movies; the explosions were fine, but long low rumbling sounds would pop the breakers. |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Donnie on 12/27/19 at 20:44:46 My extension cords kinda glow at night when the music is bumpin! |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Archie on 12/27/19 at 22:50:27 The Electrical Code is like a factor of safety. But I've seen old Cutler Hammer breakers not trip even with a dead short! :P |
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Title: Re: Power Post by Steve Deckert on 12/28/19 at 03:42:59 True Story... lived in a rental house for a few years that was built over an old dump. Also there was an underground stream running through the property which caused it to sink about 8 inches, so the house that was on a slab leaned, and the separate garage also leaned. The meter was on the garage for some reason, and then wires run into the house. The result of the underground creek was that it caused a ground rod under the meter to become intermittently isolated from ground depending on moisture content of the dirt. I figured that out when installing a new ground rod and after the 4th strike with the hammer, the rod fell into the ground and nearly disappeared from sight. What happens when a ground rod goes bad? Super weird shit. First I started noticing that my stereo sounded different from night to night. Second I noticed that on some nights when I turned on the light in the kitchen, the light in the living room would get a lot brighter. When measuring the voltage I found that it was drifting all over the place. Without that ground rod to create a return path for the two phases, there was nothing to balance the voltage between them. Voltage on each rail was now determined by the load. It gets better... One night I opened the closet where the electric panel was and saw the conduit feeding the top of panel GLOWING!. There was a ring of bluish red that was slowly climbing the conduit and then moving back down. It looked like plasma. This was literally just before I started building my own amplifiers, which I taught myself how to do by getting a book on how to read schematics from Radio Shack, and a bunch of tube amp schematics from the library (Sams Photo Facts) of various vintage tube equipment I had, none of which actually worked. With no theory, I simply learned everything not to do, until there was nothing left to do wrong which at that magic point the amp would start to work. Then I learned everything not to do again and again and again and again until it sounded right. My first amp took 30 days and nights before it worked right.. That's after I completed building it, which probably took all summer. Part of the issues after getting past newbie stuff like wiring capacitors backwards, was the voltage in the house changing from minute to minute. Imagine this kind of shit when you're teaching yourself how to troubleshoot your first tube amp! It was brutal. Anyway, it was about the most messed up "power" quality in that house,.. interestingly during that bizarre period I remember a few nights of stellar sound from the stereo. Watching the plasma ring slowly travel up and down that pipe was hypnotic and terrifying. Steve |
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