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AUDIO FORUMS >> Vinyl >> Is a SUT needed?
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Message started by Geno on 06/18/19 at 15:55:46

Title: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Geno on 06/18/19 at 15:55:46

I have an opportunity for a really good deal on a Soundsmith Carmen-M Fixed Coil / Moving Iron ??? cartridge. The specs say Output Voltage @ 5cm/sec is 2.12 mV (High) , Recommended Load Resistance: ≥ 47kΩ

I've never used anything other than a MM cart, so this is a new area for me. Would I need a SUT to use this cart? I'm using a ZP3.

Thanks,

Geno

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Acetone on 06/18/19 at 16:17:46

Hey Geno,
I've read somewhere in these forums that 2.15 etc High Output MM carts are fine with the ZP3. I've rolled the dice on a soundsmith zephyr mkIII es that I should have in a few days. I will let you know how that works out.
I plan to run the ZP3 thru the Zstage / Zrock2 as I do now. That should, hopefully, solve any gain issues. Steve D recommends a higher output MM cart for the ZP3...so, again, we'll see.

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Geno on 06/18/19 at 16:32:43

Thanks Ace! Definitely keep me posted. As of a few days ago, I have a Zstage in my phono chain, too. I hadn't thought about that helping.

Best,

Geno

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Archie on 06/18/19 at 17:01:54

I've used a 0.5mV cart with my ZP3 and CSP3 and it worked well except for he extra noise due to running the CSP3 so high. I did this while waiting for my ZMC1. The 2.5mV cart should work with the ZP3 and ZSTAGE but you might get more noise as well. I've posted several times that the ZP3 only puts out about 1/2 volt with a 5mV cart and no one has contradicted me. Since Steve's amps generally require 2 volts to come to full power, the ZP3 is still marginal without an additional gain stage before the amp.

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Geno on 06/21/19 at 12:39:50

I ended up with a 2.1mV cart. Definitely a hum run through my Zstage. Not too bad until I get the dial past 3 O’clock. The sound is so good that I can live with it ;)

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by jslateiv on 06/21/19 at 15:12:40

Geno, you should def. be able to get that hum down to barely audible levels. You will have to look at how your grounding between the TT and ZP3 are and where the ZStage is connected. If you have the ZStage in between the TT and ZP3, try connecting the ZS to the ZP3 outputs and then ZS to amp. If the ZS is already connected to the ZP3 output then I would look closely at TT cable routing to the ZP3 and make sure the ground wire from TT is tightly connected at both TT and ZP3.

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Geno on 06/21/19 at 15:22:07

Thank you, Jslate. I have connected - TT to ZP3 w/ground - ZP3 to Zstage - Zstage to Amp

I just took for granted that the hum was a result of the new cart's low voltage output. I will use your recommendations, and experiment.

Kindest regards,

Geno

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Archie on 06/21/19 at 15:49:55

I dealt with TT related hum for years. Grounding was not the issue nor was shielded or non-shielded interconnects. My solution was to move all TT related ICs away from my power outlets. Power cable proximity makes no difference but the outlets sure do.

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Geno on 06/21/19 at 16:05:57

Hi Adam. I can definitely rule outlet interference out. Both of mine are nowhere near a TT connection.

I have 2 MM carts that I use, with no hum whatsoever.

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by jslateiv on 06/21/19 at 16:48:01

My Zephyr MIMC is very low output and the hum I originally exp when using a SUT was due to the grounding techniques used. Once I got that sorted out, I did find that cable/table proximity to noisy sources like outlets, eqp. transformers, unshielded power cables, etc.. would make a difference in 'picked up' noise. I don't think the hum is inherent to your cart and 2.5mv is a pretty healthy output but like anything it seems, there are always exceptions to the rule. Play around with placement. Also, if you have any 'shorting' plugs laying around (or have an easy way to short the inputs to your ZP3, then you can easily tell if the noise is being picked up between the table and ZP3 or if it is entering the system down stream)….

Title: Re: Is a SUT needed?
Post by Archie on 06/22/19 at 01:03:31

I agree that hum might not be cart related, unless you only get the hum with the new cart, everything else staying the same. My hum was independent of cart, MM or MC and with/without the SUT. I was just living with it until I happened to rearrange cables for some reason.