Post by Lonely Raven on 02/13/19 at 15:27:38
Tom and those with the 25th - try this one out. I was listening to this the other night and marveled at how "personal" the music was with the 25th mods.
Acedtone 1992-2001
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Happy Amp Day https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1549638023 Message started by Palomino on 02/08/19 at 15:00:23 |
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Title: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/08/19 at 15:00:23 OUT FOR DELIVERY Three beautiful words. My 25th is coming today. Its been a long trip going all the way back to when I first heard ProgRobs Zen/Open baffle setup several years ago and knowing I would own a Zen amp some day. Then came reading Steve's 25th development notes, listening to Raven's pre-25th prototype, and attending the fest and auditioning the amp in Steve's room. All this lead to the conclusion that I will buy a Zen and I will stretch my budget and buy the 25th. Next came the prep in anticipation of having a different, faster amp. Speaker driver swap outs, speaker wire exchanges, ICs. Compiling Tidal playlists. Building new baffles. All these things helped pass the time. Given that this was my second new Decware amp purchase, I knew the wait would seem forever, but I found the new and improved real time amp waiting list helped me ballpark my delivery and it proved pretty accurate. So here I am. Getting this amp. My system/room sounds the best it ever has. Can this be topped? |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/08/19 at 15:07:18 Awesome! You've prepared nicely and will be starting a fascinating journey. Can it be topped? There's always more to explore in this hobby. . . power treatment, improved room treatment, cabling, fuses (an area I'm exploring), and more. Thank goodness! It remains interesting day after day. I hope it arrives early in the day, and I know you'll keep us posted. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/08/19 at 15:16:12 Unfortunately, I am working downtown today, so it will have to wait until I get home around 6:00. And tomorrow I am out of town visiting my Dad so no listening time until Sunday. While my question was somewhat rhetorical, I am wondering how much better my system will sound with this new amp. I think given others' experiences that question might not be answered for a while. I keep remembering back to October when I was able to listen to the 25th by myself and hearing the engagement level and overall way the amp put together such a coherent picture of the sound. That was clearly beyond what I am getting now. If I can achieve that with my chain, in my room, I will be very happy. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/08/19 at 15:20:50 My prediction, and I hope you don't prove me wrong, is that you'll be very happy. These amps are game-changing as you suspect. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/08/19 at 15:23:21 What is missing in my chain is the pre. I think that added something to the mix. An overall richness, perhaps. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/08/19 at 15:27:38 Definitely something to consider. I'm using two currently! Our systems and rooms are different, but what I find the preamps add most is "body"--the instrumental image is fleshed out more and more solidly placed in space. As I say there's always something to explore. But my guess is just adding this amp will make an ear-to-ear-wide-grinning difference in your system. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by jslateiv on 02/08/19 at 16:28:34 I couldn't agree with Lon more. I found that it did take a few hours to 'settle in', but that happened pretty quickly and I think that by leaving the amp on with music playing over night really helped speed up the process. By the next morning I really felt that things had locked in place. It continues to season, with approx. 100hrs. on her now. The difference though between the last 80 hrs. is subtle compared to the first 20. Hitting that first 20hr. mark I felt there was a clear and concise improvement, with everything 'locking in' and really starting to gel. I wouldn't have any hesitation to leave running over night, the best part being that you will awaken to musical bliss. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lonely Raven on 02/08/19 at 17:02:09 Nice! And congrats on the newborn-amp, Tom! Hopefully you get it seasoned up quickly! Feel free to leave it with me while you're out of town! LOL Aaron and I have some ideas brewing, I'll share with you later tonight. ;) I'll try not to pester you during your listening session...too much. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Showme on 02/08/19 at 17:31:59 Tom, since I know you have a UD-503 you might stick it in the chain as a pre and see what you think. I had to do that because I needed the gain for my speakers. I'm sure your ears are more attuned than mine so I'd be interested in your comment. I may buy a CSP-3 with the 25th touches when Steve gets the matched one ready to sell. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/08/19 at 18:04:59 Hi Show, I do use it in the chain and there is benefit, but I think Lon nailed the concept when he said the addition of a Decware pre places the image more solidly in space. That's the essence of the contextual attribute that I was referring to. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by lazb on 02/08/19 at 19:05:27 Pal, you do not show having a ZROCK2 in your system. I can definitely recommend one with the 25th mods to complement the ZEN and give you a bit of gain along with it! |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/08/19 at 21:01:14 I do have a zbit which I am not sure is the same thing but it does add richness. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Archie on 02/08/19 at 22:57:43 Quote:
They're not. I'm surprised you're not up to speed on the ZROCK2. They are the best "add-on" component Steve makes. IMHO. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/08/19 at 23:17:02 Yeah I haven’t been tuning in on the zrock stuff. I thought they were more of a help to internet radio boosting the bass. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Archie on 02/08/19 at 23:58:16 I have a ZMA and HR1s and the ZR2 is a phenomenal boost. You guys don't have one in your CDAPS (or whatever that acronym is? :D)? |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/09/19 at 01:03:46 I've built my system now around how the ZROCK2 influences the system. It's a cherished component! |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/09/19 at 01:24:23 No zr in CDApS yet. If there is a prospective member in the Chicago area, speak up! |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by HockessinKid on 02/09/19 at 01:57:43 Palomino, Enjoy your new 25th Anniversary amplifier. It's something special. HK |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Dominick on 02/09/19 at 23:03:14 Tom...congratulations on the 25th!! I can’t wait to hear your first impressions. I get excited when an Amazon package get delivered...I can’t image waiting for the 25th to come. Take the day off from work and enjoy it!! I still have recollections of Decfest and how amazed I was with how that amp sounded!! Dom |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by JOMAN on 02/09/19 at 23:21:43 I just got my ZR2 back with both the A-Mods. I’m right there with Archie and Lon. After experiencing the UFO-25 I expected to be amazed and even then I was not prepared for the difference the A-Mods made in the ZR-2 and what the ZR-2 does right across the entire spectrum, not just the bass. I’m pretty sure you’ll be more than impressed with the UFO-25, throw a ZR-2 with both A- mods in the mix and the combo will totally wreck you. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/09/19 at 23:28:17 Awesome J, glad you got yours. Mine will get built soon, I can't wait to get the modified one, and use the current one in my upcoming second system. (New system will be installed soon. . . the TV stand Lucy want to use just shipped from California). Keep us posted with new impressions. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lonely Raven on 02/10/19 at 22:32:49 Quote:
I'm not terribly interested. I like to keep my signal path super short. From the ZROCK2 page: Quote:
I have none of these issues in my system, and haven't really felt like I needed a boost. I wouldn't turn down a demo of a ZROCK2 in my system to see how I feel about it, but I don't feel like I *need* it. Also, too broke for more gear right now. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Archie on 02/10/19 at 23:42:50 Ignorance is bliss. Don't audition one unless you're prepared to buy. ;) That description may be correct but it doesn't say what it does when those deficiencies aren't present. It takes a 10 and turns it into an 11. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/11/19 at 00:27:08 Good advice and well-described Archie. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/11/19 at 00:59:49 Sounds like people are getting more out of it than it’s intended use. Good for all. I am enjoying this little phenom known as the 25th right now so I am content. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/11/19 at 01:24:43 I'm not sure it's true that many are getting benefits outside of its intended use. Its targeted usage is broader than that. I think what many of us are getting big benefit from lies in this bit from the page: The reality is that many speaker/room combinations will roll off the lower bass leaving you with a leaner, drier, less rich sound. When you combine typical low-bass performance with a Z-ROCK you end up with a much flatter bass response in the bottom octave where many systems lack. A Z-ROCK restores this missing information and makes your music sound full and rich at lower volumes. Using a Z-Rock gives music gains a nice "hit" that you normally don't get unless you're at a concert or club, and does so without having to be turned up loud. That is the biggest benefit in my situation. In a well-treated room such as that you and Eric are aspiring with success to outfit the benefit I am sure will be there, but may be less pronounced as you are addressing the problem in other ways. I can't "treat" my room, and the ZROCK2 is in some sense a great compensation for that. I won't be without it now, it makes everything better. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/11/19 at 14:20:46 Yeah, I can see where the zrock might assist my DIY Monolith based system but not my main system or those of my CDApS colleagues. Raven is rocking a sub the size of Vermont that easily does 15hz at moderate volume. I have duel 15” subs that do about 25hz and Badwolf also has one, maybe two subs going as well. Some additional pop is always welcome but I am not feeling the need now with the 25th (see my review). Still, we are an experimental group. It might be nice to hear one in one of our rooms. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/11/19 at 14:58:20 Do experience one if you can. Don't close your mind to what it can do. I closed my mind for so long to the impact of a great preamp, to the impact of great tubes, to the ZROCK2. With each crack opening my mind my system improved and the enjoyment I have with my system deepened. It astonished me how much the ZROCK2 improved every aspect of the system. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/11/19 at 15:07:32 Will do. We've had more interest in CDApS lately from around and even outside of Chicago so perhaps we'll have someone with a zrock join us. I survived the anxiety of amp day and posted my initial thoughts over in the 25th forum. No shocker, but I am really enjoying the amp, even in the early break in period. It is a very refined music producing instrument. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Archie on 02/11/19 at 15:32:45 While bass gets the most press with the ZR2, I find a wonderful bloom in the lower mids that I like even more. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lonely Raven on 02/11/19 at 15:39:38 Quote:
Actually the big sub has been out of commission for over a year now, and the 18" hasn't been used since the 25th mod on my Zen that started Steve down this path of 25th Anniversary stuffs. And now with the ZMA and the 25th mods...cripes the bass is HUGE and lifelike. So yeah, no subs at all with the El Camino speakers. I would love to hear some bloom though - so I'm keeping an open mind - just like with the Preamps - I'll give it a try if I can borrow one, but I just don't feel I *needs* it. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/11/19 at 15:43:55 Well I still like saying "sub the size of Vermont" :) |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/13/19 at 14:00:33 I have been enjoying the amp during break-in. I have actually had thoughts of selling more gear and buying another one. I'll wait to see how this one sounds in the much bigger room at the cottage. In the past that room has required the Torii. The latest phrase to pop into my head in describing this amp is "ease of precision." I've heard amps (typically sand) that are detailed but not particularly easy to listen to over time nor all that musical. This amp has such as ease about how it presents great, captivating detail it really sucks you into the listening experience. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/13/19 at 14:21:19 Well stated. The way these amps present detail was the fundamental difference I noted at first. Many amps "highlight" detail which is interesting but can be unnatural and fatiguing with listening time and is hard to tailor into the entire system sound. These amps present the detail as integral to the entire sound field, and the analogy that works for me is that the details are woven into an entire tapestry of sound, creating the most natural and cohesive sonic presentation I've heard. Adding the modded preamp took this to another level that I didn't realize was a button on the elevator, and I can only imagine that the modded ZROCK2 will possibly add another floor to the elevator panel (Steve implies it will, and he has not been wrong with this new tech so far). That "ease" will increase in tiny increments as the amp seasons. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/13/19 at 14:27:30 I made up a Tidal playlist of most of the tracks Steve mentioned in the 25th development thread. I listened to them but wasn't that captivated by them with Rachael. Now I am rediscovering those tracks and saying, "oh, OK, now I get Steve's enthusiasm." Some of them are just not my taste, but I am finding them to be very interesting to listen to. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/13/19 at 14:40:29 Cool. Though I know it's the way for many, no playlists for me. I have thousands of discs and each time I pull one out and put it on I remember why I bought it and am just drawn deeply into the music. This is what I value most, not playing "spectacular sounding music," but enjoying the fantastic MUSIC that I love in playback this fulfilling. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by ScottNC on 02/13/19 at 15:04:31 Lon, I gotta confess, I’m following your “Listening To” every day, then I pop over to my Roon, running Qobuz and TIDAL, then add them to my library. I reaping great listening pleasure from your endeavors. [smiley=10.gif] You have fine taste in music. Best, Scott |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/13/19 at 15:25:01 I've kind of lost track of that thread since it moved, but always a good source for new music! Scott, What's been your experience in finding the music on Tidal vs Qobuz? I am not a fan of the Tidal search capabilities. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lonely Raven on 02/13/19 at 15:27:38 Tom and those with the 25th - try this one out. I was listening to this the other night and marveled at how "personal" the music was with the 25th mods. Acedtone 1992-2001 |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lon on 02/13/19 at 15:29:31 Thanks Scott. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/13/19 at 15:31:34 Thanks Raven. I'll look for it. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by ScottNC on 02/13/19 at 15:56:41 PAL, I recently signed up for the Qobuz BETA and have a 1 year TIDAL, both can be turned on in my Roon. Previously I had only fair success with my searches in Roon through TIDAL Since my recent addition of Qobuz, right before Roon had a fairly major upgrade and also TIDAL had an upgrade, I don't even attempt to claim how all this integrates and works together at this point (I'm working on trying to get myself schooled on it!) I can now source almost anything I search for and add a playlist or just simply to my library. I'm really impressed with it as Lon has an extremely wide range of music he posts, almost every time I search it finds it, I'm amazed at how it does and also the quality of the feed. Granted, I have a pretty decent processing pathway for it, but so does most everyone else here. I was to the point where I did an $5 a month update (higher res, better interface) to my free Pandora because of the lack of finding stuff on TIDAL. Even if I have to maintain a subscription to Qobuz and TIDAL, for me it's a great deal, about $50 a month for almost unlimited high res music is way less than my trying to purchase all this unknown and known library. Granted, I don't "own" much of it, I have it at my finger tips. Additionally there is availability to purchase tracks and albums in hi res at a very decent discount on Qobuz. They got it nailed at least so far, for my needs. If I can actually sort out how it all integrates, maybe I can drop TIDAL and then I'm down to $25 a month for all that. It's been incredible having all this new material to listen to on all this new modded gear and my ZTPRE is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow so I don't plan on sleeping much til spring! Best, Scott |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by ScottNC on 02/13/19 at 16:02:42 AND.... There it is, added to my list... Sweet! |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Palomino on 02/13/19 at 16:17:35 Interesting, I just got my Qobuz notice. Not a beta customer, but I can now access the 1 month trial. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by lazb on 02/13/19 at 16:22:55 LR, it may be "personal" but one cannot be in a hurry to listen to it. I think the vocals should have been a little more prominent while each note was being contemplated before it was brought into existence. Unusual, but very likable. Thanks for the reference. |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by ScottNC on 02/13/19 at 16:31:08 PAL, Mine was I beta, 30 day trial. It sounds like from somebody’s post the beta is over tomorrow, not sure, but I bet you’ll enjoy it. Scott |
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Title: Re: Happy Amp Day Post by Lonely Raven on 02/13/19 at 18:46:32 Quote:
Very well described! And I agree! I should post more of my finds - I just notice that not everyone likes what I post, and I think I (probably all of us do this) find that when an album suites my mood, it's amazing...but then I come back to it later remembering how awesome it was and I was like...WTF was I thinking! So it's sometimes hard for me to say if something is truly good, or just happened to have scratched an itch. Thankfully I'm a bit more neutral about hardware - it's helped me point out when something isn't right, no matter how much I want it to be right. LOL. |
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