Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl EQUIPMENT FORUMS >> ZROCK2 >> Opinions please https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1526748094 Message started by Melvin on 05/19/18 at 17:41:34

Title: Opinions please Post by Melvin on 05/19/18 at 17:41:34 Hey guys .. after reading as much as I can about the ZROCK2 I was hoping to get some opinions/comments. First and foremost, I’m very happy with my system and don’t need to change a thing. That being said, I can’t help thinking the ZR2 might be a very nice addition to my loudspeaker system. When Schiit released their Loki Mini EQ/tone control I ordered one for my headphone system (Asgard 2, Bifrost MB, Audio-Technica ATH-R70x). I wasn’t disappointed .. great price, easy to use, and transparent when bypassed .. terrific addition to my budget-friendly set-up. Point being, I like having a hardware-based EQ solution and understand what it can bring to the table. I’m in. As you can see in my signature my system is pretty simple: Node 2 (analog-out) to the ICBM-1 crossover, out to both subs and the amp, SE84UFO out to Super 3i’s. I’ve found over time I like the subs crossed at 60 Hz allowing the Super 3i’s (55 Hz - 20 kHz) to do their single-driver thing almost entirely with the subs adding some foundation. I’m not even remotely a bass head thus the subs volume is turned down providing a nice balance to my ears and taste. Nothing boomy. Sounds great for the most part. However, I also love the Super 3i’s running full spectrum sans subwoofers. They are, of course, a bit bass shy. Subwoofers, as we all know, bring their own set of issues and, frankly, I wouldn’t mind not having to deal with them at all, hence the interest in the ZROCK2. Removing the subs also means I can remove the ICBM-1 as well. I like simple. So, am I crazy to think the addition of a ZROCK2 may bring enough to the mix allowing me to eliminate the subs and crossover? Yes, I could just order one and see for myself but, I’d appreciate any comments and/or advice you’d care to share. Thanks.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Archie on 05/19/18 at 19:12:25 I asked the question about eliminating a sub with a ZR2 in a post but no one answered.  Maybe no one has tried?  My system is a completely different animal with the ZR2 in place.  I now get deep and powerful bass out of my HR1s that I never knew I was missing. Assuming your speakers are capable of going down low, it might do the trick.  I think the ZR2 is a game changer and my advice is to get one.  I'm only aware of one person who ended up not liking what the ZR2 did in their system.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Lon on 05/19/18 at 19:19:17 I'm with you Archie. I have never owned a sub, I just have never liked the sound of a system with one, never found it truly integrated. So of course I didn't respond. t have HR-1s too and the ZROCK2 has allowed me the tonal balance I want and has become a key part of of my system, can't imagine it without it now. Melvin. . . I don't think you'll be disappointed with the ZROCK2 and it's quite possible the sub will be on the way out.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Donnie on 05/19/18 at 20:16:22 But, there is always a but, I'm thinking the best system that I've ever heard had a sub in it. Steve was running his Imperials with ZOB's off of some SE84UFO's a couple of years ago. Simply stunning sounding. I really need to build me a couple of Imperials. I've started watching Paul McGown's Youtube videos and he pushes subs pretty hard. So there is always a but!

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Melvin on 05/20/18 at 14:01:56 You're right Donnie, there's always a but! Archie & Lon .. the HR1's are spec'd down to 32 Hz, no? I wouldn't hesitate if my speakers went down that low to begin with but, as mentioned, the Super 3i's go down to 55 Hz. Makes me wonder if that's low enough for the ZROCK2 to make me forget about the subs. That's my conundrum.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Lon on 05/20/18 at 14:13:22 I think it will. I've tried it briefly with my Torii Mk III and the Trapeziums and they definitely helped flesh out the lower end. I've not been someone who's ever really lusted or felt the need for sub though. The music I listen to really doesn't seem to require a speaker to plumb those depths--the occasional organ note may not get the full representation but I do listen to pipe organ music and don't seem to miss that. . . . So I think that if you are inclined to use a sub you may still need one with the ZROCK2, but that's something I can't really say defniitively as I'm not a sub person.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Melvin on 05/20/18 at 14:35:17 Much appreciated Lon .. and encouraging! I listen to a lot of jazz and I'm really doubting the need for the subs honestly. Yes, I might miss out on some of the low impact but I might be happy with the trade off. I care much much more about tone, density, and coherence than rattling my bones. The Super 3i's don't go exceptionally low but what is there is quite good. Perhaps, as I contemplate all this, I should remove the subs and crossover and insert the Loki to get some sense if this is a good idea. Hmmm ..

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by mark58 on 05/20/18 at 14:54:51 I have two systems, one with a sub, one without.  The primary system has an Omega Deep Hemp Sub and HR-1 speakers.  When I added a ZROCK II, I turned down the sub but didn't turn it off.  It's a good question though.  I might leave it off for my next Vinyl Therapy Session. Regardless whether you have a sub or not, I think a ZROCK II is a worthy addition. My guess is that had I first had the ZROCK, I wouldn't have felt the need for a sub.  I listen to a lot of 50's and 60's Jazz that doesn't have the full bass obtained from today's recordings so a Sub was needed in my opinion. In my second system with a pair of Zen Signature monoblocks and Zu Audio "Soul" speakers, I have never felt the need for a sub but the ZROCK II was a welcome addition.  Hope this helps, Mark. PS...I should add that both systems also have CSP3 preamps in the chain...

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Lon on 05/20/18 at 14:55:46 Sounds like a good idea to me. . . .

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Melvin on 05/20/18 at 15:00:11 Mark .. it helps tremendously. Thank you. I just pulled the subs and crossover out and inserted the Loki. I'll play for a bit.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Melvin on 05/20/18 at 20:45:05 The Loki was OK .. seems to suit my headphone system better, so I yanked it. Then it dawned on me that a DAC change might be helpful (I have a couple in storage). So I connected my Chord Qute EX and Teddy Pardo 12/2 PSU. The Qute EX was well-known for its fantastic bass presentation (among other attributes). I almost forgot how good this DAC is .. beautiful rich tone up/down the spectrum. The DAC change proved to be a move in the right direction. And I still can't help but think the ZROCK2 may be in my future.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by MarioEd on 05/21/18 at 16:16:57 I'm kind of curious about this topic as well. I'm using Omega Junior 8XRS speakers in my system along with a pair of Randy's Alpha 15 Bass Baffles powered by a Crown amp. The Omega's go down to 38Hz and I've been wondering if adding a ZRock2 would let me take the Crown/Alpha 15's out of my system. For most acoustic & jazz recordings the Omega's are fine without the Alpha's but I find most rock & symphonic classical benefit from having the Alpha's. They add more density and weight in the low end.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Steve Deckert on 05/22/18 at 06:40:44 I suspect it would, but if you get one please let us know what happens.  I believe the ZROCK2 is the difference between a sub and no sub with most speakers. The problem isn't even the speakrs in most cases, it's the recording so even if you have perfect flat response from your stereo down to 20Hz it's still going to sound there there is too little bass. Steve

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Melvin on 05/22/18 at 12:50:42 Thanks Steve!

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by MarioEd on 05/22/18 at 18:44:42 Thanks Steve, I think your right about the recordings and I'm pretty sure a ZRock 2 is in my future.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by JOMAN on 05/23/18 at 03:08:24 I’ve posted at length about the effect that the ZR2 has had on my sysytem so I’ll try not to repeat myself.  My speakers are the Omega S3HOXRS, 45-20kHz I believe with a pair of 4.5” drivers.  After the ZR2 I have no desire to add a sub.  In fact a couple of friends have asked if the speakers have a built in sub after listening to the system. In my experience I’ve come to the conclusion that subs are used to add bass headroom or to extend down to 20hz for the few instruments that go down that far.  If it’s bass headroom you’re looking for add the ZR2. If it’s more bass extension, then get speakers that go down that far and add the ZR2.  When it comes to bass usually theres quite a roll off so that what you think you’re going to get based on numbers does’t correlate with what you hear.  Then there’s also the effect that the room and our hearing has on what bass we hear.  The ZR2 shines in those areas, at least it has for me. I’ve spent a lot of money over the years trying to get past this, the ZR2 was the answer.  The money one saves can be better spent upstream thereby further improving the bass that you hear, for that matter everything you hear. That’s my opinion for what it’s worth.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Melvin on 05/23/18 at 15:47:31 Thank you JOMAN. I've read your posts on the ZR2 and appreciate your opinion. Your thoughts on need/want for bass headroom vs bass extension is exactly what I'm trying to figure out.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by CY_Azrael on 05/29/18 at 06:36:39 Just wanted to add that the ZROCK 2 does indeed work great in a headphone setup as well (where subwoofers are a non-concern). I'm simply running it in between my Chord Qutest and my headphone amp and the enhancements are indeed fantastic. Especially since I'm using a pair of Sennheiser's HD800S, which has great resolution and soundstage but a wee bit lacking in bass and density. Originally toyed with the idea of getting a Schitt Loki as well, but I went for the ZROCK2 after trying out a couple of cheap chinese tone controls (which were pretty horrible), and I'm glad I went for the ZROCK2  ;D

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by whoopycat on 07/23/18 at 00:13:51 I'm late to the party, but I will never use a sub again after adding a ZROCK2.  The only reason you would still need a sub is if you need bass down to 20hz and your speakers won't do go that deep.  The ZROCK gives you full bass down to whatever your speakers can handle.  In my case using Zu speakers which go down to 30-35hz, I find that is plenty of bass for my needs.   Another advantage the ZROCK has over a sub is that you don't have to worry about sub placement, especially if you don't have space for center placement where it is optimal.

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by AC on 09/03/18 at 23:00:12 Thanks for this info! I will have to consider a ZRock2 as well!

Title: Re: Opinions please Post by Chocolate on 01/14/22 at 19:52:50 Hi Melvin - Was going to PM you but since I am new and didn't have a couple posts under my belt I am sending via a reply to this thread.   I have (on order) a Tori Jr. from Steve, and have (in hand) some custom open baffle speakers from Caintuck, using the Lii fast 8 drivers.  The speakers are in need of low frequency help - and before I go down the OB sub or powered traditional subwoofer route, I'm considering electronic aid.  Pretty much the same quandry you had posted on this thread - Zrock vs. Schitt Loki.   My speaker specs are not far off of your Omega 3i's - 94db for sensitivity and going down to ~ 58 or 60hz before the low end drops off.  Was curious if you did try the Loki and whether you ever bought a Zrock and if you have any "words of wisdom" as to the differences they made in your system.  Obviously, the price difference is significant between those 2 options, and if leadtimes are the same as when I ordered the amp, a Zrock could be 8-10 months away.

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